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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Yes, Frank. May the Lord keep us from any "blindness".

I am reminded (by your remarks) of the man in Matthew 7 who is standing before the King of Kings and basically talking about himself and all his great works.

Now, he is a living example of blindness.

Standing before the Lord, face to face, boasting when he should be on his face glorifying God.

This is the same prideful heart that is emblematic of a "Cain".

I will post another "story" in a few days.

May the Lord bless you and MaryJane this week.

Pilgrim

 2013/5/15 0:08Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Pilgrim writes: . Are they so deceived that they don't even know what they are doing when all they talk, walk and think, is only to impress men and be seen of them?"

______________


I do believe "self" deception is very strong. The idea that I am "doing" all the right things even though I still getting no where can be very strong. Even Cain I think saw himself as a victim. He could not understand why he was rejected because in "Self" his focus was always on trying and never really seeking to know the LORDS heart. Abel wanted to know the LORD, his desire and focus was truly on the LORD while Cain wanted the LORD "to see" how worthy he was and how worthy his offering was. Abel's eyes were always on the LORD while Cains were always on self. Cain was so focused on self, so filled with pride and "doing" things his way, he completely rejected the truth right in front of him(If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.")Genesis 4:7...How often I have fallen into some of these same trappings. I try and try, I struggle only to come up short when all along I just needed to stop and listen to the LORD. To keep my focus on HIM, He knows what is truly right. Its never about me, its always about the LORD...even though self would like to deceive me into thinking it is. My understanding is flawed but HIS is perfect!

Cain's offerings were never meant to show off or display anything of his ability. The offerings were meant to draw him to the LORD, to give thanks for all that the LORD had given and allowed him to accomplish. In the end don't you think Cain wanted credit and glory for what he was doing? He was willing to come to the LORD but it would be on his terms and in his own fashion so that he could receive the recognition that he felt he deserved. Isn't it that same way for many today, we play church, we make sure everyone sees how "good" we can be and no one ever knows how dark our hearts truly are...no one except JESUS.

Sorry again if I seem to have rambled on. Just so much of what you shared has got me thinking and praying...which is a very good thing :)

God bless
maryjane

 2013/5/15 8:07Profile









 Re:

Maryjane writes..........

"Cain's offerings were never meant to show off or display anything of his ability. The offerings were meant to draw him to the LORD, to give thanks for all that the LORD had given and allowed him to accomplish. In the end don't you think Cain wanted credit and glory for what he was doing? He was willing to come to the LORD but it would be on his terms and in his own fashion so that he could receive the recognition that he felt he deserved. Isn't it that same way for many today, we play church, we make sure everyone sees how "good" we can be and no one ever knows how dark our hearts truly are...no one except JESUS."

Yes I agree sister, he wanted credit for the work of his hand. The ploughing and the reaping and the all that work he laid before the Lord and said " Lord, look at the work of my hand." The name Cain signifies " possession. Cain, believing it was his, that somehow he had ownership over it, gives to God in this spirit, gives to God what is already His...............bro frank

 2013/5/15 11:02
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Cain refused to accept God's ways regarding what it took to be acceptable by Him.

The Lord was looking for a blood sacrifice and Cain brought the works of his own hands. Cain's religion was to be accepted by God based on his own good works (his own self-efforts to be righteous before God). Cain's actions revealed his heart. You can imagine all the adjectives. Prideful, arrogant, unthankful, obstinate, unyielding, etc, etc.

We know that God spoke to Cain and obviously Cain could hear Him because God provided instruction on how he could be accepted by God.

Cain actually reminds me of Adam and Eve covering themselves with fig leaves. Man is constantly trying to "work his way" into relationship with God instead of depending on God's grace.

Cain's offering came from that which was cursed. "Cursed is the ground".
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Wrong offering and wrong motive and wrong attitude:

Rather than humble himself and offer a sacrifice that demonstrated faith and dependence on God, Cain persisted in his own self-efforts and was livid when rebuked by God. It is quite possible that this event of offerings was a very public one which only increased his rage as he was publicly embarrassed. His offering was a manifestation of his true heart condition which was rebellion against God's ways. That rebellion came to full fruition when he murdered his brother, Abel.

By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous. God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks (Hebrews 11:4).

God is always trying to help us when He rebukes us. He is not trying to destroy us. Sin on the other hand is likened to a crouching creature that is laying at your door ready to pounce on you.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And sin is even personalized (his and him).

Peter could have been thinking of Gen 4:7, when he wrote:
1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the DEVIL, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

What do I take away from this? That I should hearken to the Lord's words, not turning to the left or right (unto my own "good" ideas) and that the only way to know Him is not just by the Scriptures but also by the Spirit. I cannot turn the Scriptures into a personalized rule book of morality and have no regard to the voice of the Spirit of God.

Is Christianity just believing that Christ died for me, and rose again, go to church once or twice a week and read my Bible in the morning?

Or, is it about entering into relationship and fellowship with God, through Jesus Christ and by the Holy Spirit and
yielding to the voice of the Spirit each day rather than following my own preconceived ideas of what constitutes pleasing God.

Lately, I have had to face up to something from the Lord that I was ignoring. And I was ignoring it through self-justification. The Lord wants us to walk in total peace and if we don't have peace there must be a reason why. You only have to go to the Lord and ask Him why (with all earnestness) and He will be faithful to tell you? Where the "rubber meets the road" is WILL YOU MAKE THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENT in your life? We can continue to play the religious game, read our bibles and look good to men all the while refusing the voice of the Spirit, or we can be more concerned about how we look to God. What has more value for you?

What is one way that one refuses the voice of the Spirit? They convince themselves that God really means something else than what you know in your heart of hearts He is really telling you.

Let's fast-forward to the NT and talk about another "Cain". Here we will see someone that did just what I mentioned. He loved the Torah and was passionate for God, ready to avenge God of all of His enemies, yet he really did not know God or His ways.

Many blessings to you,
Pilgrim




 2013/5/15 12:20Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Paul was like Cain

What can be more simple than, "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." Gen 4:7

God only wants us to do well. What is so hard about that?

God's version of doing well is heeding His voice and heeding His voice always incorporates the denial of the flesh (the Cross).

Man's version of "doing well" never involves the Cross.

Many today, really don't want to walk by the Spirit, heeding His voice within. It is much better to walk by our own "form" of Christianity.

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Was Cain "wicked" because he murdered Abel or was that just a manifestation of the wickedness in his heart? And what was this wickedness? The refusal to be bound by voice of God.

That is why he and anyone else is wicked in God's eyes. They refuse His voice.

Heb_3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb_3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Turning to the New Testament we have Saul of Tarsus. Saul who became Paul after his conversion on the road to Damascus was like Cain. He offered the Lord the fruit of his own hands. And like Cain, the vanity of his sacrifices drove Paul to the ultimate religious act - he murdered his brethren who were more righteous than he.

Paul was like the ancients who built the tower of Babel - the building of man in behalf of God. Lost in the abomination of religion, Paul's zeal took him to the highest pinnacle of the religious system.

Paul was like Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron who offered strange fire before the Lord. Paul's service before God was to ravage the church and to fill the prisons with redeemed men and women.

Paul was like the men of Israel who bore the ark of God into battle with great confidence. Resolute with fundamental and absolute certainty of victory, Paul marched into battle ignorant that he and his black religious heart were the true enemy of God.

Only to a man like Saul of Tarsus could the true nature of man's religious ways be revealed by the Lord of Glory. And after fifteen years of emptying and filling and changing and suffering and fellowship with the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ - then the Lord had a man that could go to the Gentiles and build something neither religious nor worldly. A man who would prove obedient to the heavenly vision.

Pilgrim

 2013/5/15 20:04Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: Our Best Intentions

Ever since Adam and Eve, God is trying to drive the point home that He does not want our best intentions. I need you to "learn of my ways, for my ways are higher than your ways and learn of my thoughts for my thoughts are higher than your thoughts". God will grind us down little by little by life's circumstances, situations and disappointments until someday, we will stop trying to walk this Christian walk and build His church in our own strength. When we are ready to surrender, the real fun will begin. There is a lot of security in being a nothing, a zero. If you don't think so, try it. There is a lot of rest getting rid of your false burdens and trying to do only what is God's job to do. When you come to the place where you look to Him in everything and He is truly your everything, life is so much better. When you stop trying to do His job and get rid of your false burdens, you will begin to experience Him and His joy. Peace and rest will enter your soul.

Moses had a false burden and thought that by the strength of his hand he would do a wonderful thing and be the Deliverer of Israel. Yet it was not meant to be. Good intentions, yes, but not God's way. There is only one Deliverer in God's kingdom. After 40 years of being ground down in the backside of the desert, God called Moses. The proof of Moses coming to the end of himself, is that when he was called, he did not even want the job. Now, there is a man that God can use! Contrast that with men today that jump at the chance to "lead" God's people, or who plan it as a vocation and a career. And part of their career plan is to be educated and get credentials from men. Very good intentions, yes. But not God's way. The Lord's school is the school of the Spirit in everyday life. It is not a school of textbooks and term papers and degrees on parchment and letters behind your name and titles, that then give men a false confidence that they can either build or lead the church. Our confidence must be completely in Him. If you are primarily looking to these things instead of the Holy Spirit, you will be disappointed. God will use men with letters behind their name or not, and not because they have these things or lack these things. It does not matter. He will use those who have a yielded and obedient heart and that makes everyone a candidate, educated or not, rich or poor.

Pilgrim

 2013/5/16 13:18Profile









 Re: Our Best Intentions

Amen brother. We must enter into His rest. There is a direct correlation between His rest and proximity to Jesus. Jesus is our promised land. Jesus is our promise and the fulfillment of all of God's promises and He is the culmination of the New Covenant. We are told to press in, draw near, come unto Him.

Jesus is the beating heart of the New Testament message. There is so much legal talk of how we stand and who we are in Jesus. This is at the heart of so much theology. The irony being that the study of God replaces the presence of God. There are thousands of men all over the world teaching about God, and there is Jesus, standing, knocking at the door, wanting to be known, not in the head as one would know historical or abstract truths, but actually known personally. There was a generation of Israelites who talked about the promised land for 40 years, yet talk is wilderness, crossing over and possessing the fullness of God's promise is life and that more abundantly.

Heb 4:1-2 Therefore, a promise being left to enter into His rest, let us fear lest any of you should seem to come short of it.For also we have had the gospel preached, as well as them. But the Word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Do you know His presence? Do you know Him? Wilderness or promised land? Rest or burden? Striving in your own strength or is it " by His Spirit." Peace and contentment or continual restlessness?

Heb 4:9 So then there remains a rest to the people of God.

Can you say you have this rest?

Mat 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In His presence there is fullness of Joy. Will you lay down your works and " come unto me." .........bro Frank

 2013/5/16 15:48
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


 Re: Our Best Intentions

Dear brother Pilgrim,

Thank God for the deep Word,

Amen,amen and amen !

It is with great joy that I am reading this,...please continue.

Bless you,
elizabeth

 2013/5/16 19:35Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Bless you too, Elibeth.

Quote:
Amen brother. We must enter into His rest. There is a direct correlation between His rest and proximity to Jesus. Jesus is our promised land. Jesus is our promise and the fulfillment of all of God's promises and He is the culmination of the New Covenant. We are told to press in, draw near, come unto Him.

Jesus is the beating heart of the New Testament message. There is so much legal talk of how we stand and who we are in Jesus. This is at the heart of so much theology. The irony being that the study of God replaces the presence of God. There are thousands of men all over the world teaching about God, and there is Jesus, standing, knocking at the door, wanting to be known, not in the head as one would know historical or abstract truths, but actually known personally. There was a generation of Israelites who talked about the promised land for 40 years, yet talk is wilderness, crossing over and possessing the fullness of God's promise is life and that more abundantly.



Appolus,

I have always thought that the chief thing to watch out for when discerning the spirits, is this: Is Jesus Christ being diminished? Is some personality or some teaching being exalted over Jesus Christ. One of the first things, if not the first thing I am always listening and looking for (spiritual ears and eyes) is if Jesus is being diminished in any way. That spells trouble if I detect it.

Jesus was zealous for His Father's house and those who have His Spirit will be zealous for the glory of God to rest upon Jesus Christ.

Psa_115:1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

It is a very cataclysmic event in one's life when they first come to the Lord. How can it not be? Coming to the Lord and receiving His Spirit brings a radical, heart altering change in one's life. We are wrenched out of the Kingdom of Darkness into the Kingdom of His dear Son. What a ride that was!! And we are filled with euphoria and the love of God and we want to change the world and yet we are zealous without knowledge. Not the knowledge of the Bible, but the knowledge of Him and His ways. But that's ok. This is a normal path to take in our new life with Christ. Soon enough, He will bring testings in our lives to mature us (test our love for Him) and teach us what real love is. It is not a feeling or an emotion, though feelings or emotions may accompany it. Love is an act of our will.

And there is another upheaval in one's life when they come to utter failure and the end of themselves and realize they cannot live this Christian life apart from Him. When they finally give up performing for God and vying for men's admiration and promotion and realize that the safest and best thing to be is a nobody, yet known of God, they begin to understand His rest. And they begin to enjoy Him as Mary did, while Martha was in the kitchen and indignantly accused Mary to Jesus. Yes, Mary had chosen the good part that would not be taken from her.

"Stand still and see the salvation of God."

"Be still and know that I am God."

Staying in that rest is not automatic. We are to "labor to enter that rest" and you will labor to stay in that rest, too. But it is a good labor, a worthy labor, a labor that resists the flesh, the world and the Devil.

Do you know this song?

Psa_68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

I love it. We were born to extol and worship and love God.

Another song that ministers to me is Zech 3:17.

Zep 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Hallelujah!!

The Lord bless and keep you all in His love.

 2013/5/17 1:33Profile









 Re:

Amen brother, I agree that staying in the rest is not automatic, neither is seeking His presence, one must be diligent to seek Him and if you are, then God is a rewarder of that kind of diligence. I wrote this poem a couple of years back based on Psalm 68...........

Let God arise and His enemies be scattered
Who dares to stand in this day?
My troubles melt like wax in the presence of the Lord
Like smoke in the wind, they are blown away

Who shall extol Him who rides upon the clouds?
We shall lift His name on high
We shall lift up our eyes to where our help comes from
We shall see His majesty in the sky

The heavens drop rain at the presence of God
It falls upon a dry and thirsty land
You sustain your people in the midst of their plight
You lead them by your righteous right hand

When I am low in my troubles and darkness covers me
And the messenger, its only bad news that he brings
I will call upon my God and arise again once more
Like a dove with silver sprinkled on its wings

Zion you are small, as far as mountains go
To look at you no one could ever tell
That this would be the place, of power and of grace
This would be the place that God would dwell

So stand up child of God, remember who you are
Your delivered, your redeemed, you've been set free
No longer slaves to sin, transformed from deep within
Now you'll reign with Christ the King eternally

 2013/5/17 9:27





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