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pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 On the Plains of Shinar

A long time ago there were some people who were wanderers on the earth. They had a dream and a vision to find a place and establish themselves as a people who worshipped God and who experienced unity amongst themselves. So, they found a beautiful land and with much hard work and self-sacrifice they began to realize their dream as it unfolded day by day.

It would be hard to deny that these people did not know something of the heart and purpose of God. In the last book of the Bible we see that God is ultimately after a city. Abraham knew this and he spent his life searching for that city.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Heb 11:8-11

I think it would be difficult to fault these people whose motives seemed so noble. However, they had one shortcoming. God had neither commanded nor requested them to build a city for Himself. Therefore, it is not surprising that when these people built, they built with man-made bricks instead of God-made stone. When God, the MasterBuilder wants something built, He equips and instructs His people as to how He builds. His methods and His materials. Man's work always looks like man and is detestable in the sight of God. "...for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." Luke 16:15b

God eventually stopped the construction of the "holy" city on the plain of Shinar. The place later became known as Babel. Most people forget that it did not start out as Babel. It began as a city with a tower that would reach into the heavens - to God. It is easy to sit back and judge them as a people with some evil imagination in their hearts. Afterall, when people think of Babel they usually think of the worst when it comes to the people that were involved. Pagan, evil, sinister, etc. The fact is, they were people like you and me with ideas, plans and designs for doing something for God. Isn't it amazing that almost every church building today has a tower reaching to the heavens.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: Psalm 127:1a

 2013/5/8 23:41Profile









 Re: On the Plains of Shinar

I was just in Hebrews today brother, contemplating on what faith is and what the " substance," meant. The Holy Spirit was showing me again about a city yet to come, about the beauty of the vision and faith of these men in Heb 11....

Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Oh the beauty of the unity that is to be made whole with the passing of the ages and the coming of the Lord as we take our place in a Heavenly Jerusalem, in a dwelling place not built by human hands, in a temple built with living stones, the living stones of every single child of the living God that will house God Himself. Think about that saints, God is building Himself a dwelling place, and we are it!!!!!

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.


 2013/5/9 0:02
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Frank,

Why do you think they "wandered in deserts and in mountains and in dens and caves of the earth?"

Why do we not have the word describing them "inside the camp" of human institutions and systems?

Scriptures say "the world was not worthy" of them.

Were they pushed out of the system and into the deserts, mountains and dens because of their faithful and holy commitment to God and their uncompromising preaching of the truth? I think that is exactly what happened.

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

What were they doing or saying that they should receive such rude treatment?

Have you ever noticed that God has very definite ways of doing things? Today we get a little bit of knowledge "under our belt" and then act as if we know exactly how it is all done (laboring with the Lord in building the Kingdom). Many today seem to have adopted this mindset: "Ok God, I see how it is done and I'll take it from here".

How serious do we think God is about doing things His way?

Uzzah was just trying to steady the Ark when God struck him dead. What was wrong with what Uzzah was doing? Uzzah was just trying to "help out God", wasn't he?

Suffice to say that the "Lord's anger was kindled against Uzzah and God smote him"..."and David was displeased".

And why did that whole mission fail, anyway? The mission failed because David himself was not bringing the Ark back the way God wanted it brought back. But they brought it back the wrong route and the wrong way, "driving the ark" instead of on their shoulders. Is there a big difference? In God's mind, there is.

I will talk about this story soon. It is very revealing how men of God can "lean on their own understanding" and get it so wrong. We want to learn something from this story.

Interesting that among other things, Uzzah means "goat".

Blessings to you, bro.

Pilgrim

 2013/5/9 15:50Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Out of the Firepan and into the Fire


About 3,500 years ago there were two Israelites that were very special men. What made them special? Their experience and their lineage.

This was their experience:
They had witnessed the Lord bring 10 plagues down on the Egyptians and deliver His people out of Egypt with His mighty hand. They had stood and seen the Red Sea part so that Israel could walk across on dry land. They witnessed the Red Sea come back together and swallow up the pursuing armies. Everyday they ate bread out of heaven and drank pure water that came from a rock - supernatural provision by God to meet their daily needs. These two very special men followed the physical presence of God - a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. They stood with the nation at Mt. Sinai and received the law. They were selected by God to come into His presence along with Moses and Aaron and seventy of the elders of Israel. They beheld God with their eyes and ate and drank in His presence. That was the experience of these two special men.

This was their lineage:
They were descendants of Abraham of the tribe of Levi and the two oldest sons of Aaron, the high priest of Israel. Out of the loins of the oldest should have descended all of the high priests for the next 1,500 years. These two men were consecrated and ordained unto the Lord in the presence of the whole nation. They were part of a perpetual priesthood to God.

These two special men, Nadab and Abihu, with all their great experience and lineage, had what seemed to them to be a great idea. They would do something for God. They would serve him in a novel way. They took their respective firepans and after putting fire in them, placed incense on them and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded of them. And fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them and they died before the Lord. That's right. God killed them for their great idea and wanting to serve Him in their own way. Even with their great lineage and experience, God snuffed them out.

Did God not know who these men were? Did He not know that they were Aaron's sons. Yes, He knew all of that but it did not matter to Him. God is not a respecter of persons and will have things done in His way, and His time and is not interested in "My Ministry". He is interested in transformation, in the inner man. He is not interested in your ministry, at least not nearly as much as He is interested in you. Before there can ever be a proper ministry, there must be a proper vessel. There are many "vessels" today doing "God's work", who have have never let Him do His most important work, in THEM.

Pilgrim

 2013/5/12 23:11Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Highly Esteemed by Man

Once there was a very hard working and industrious man who had a heart to seek God. We know that he could "hear" the Lord God's voice because the Scriptures reveal that he was greatly encouraged and counseled by God. He had a desire to please God so he brought to God part of all that God had blessed him with.

So far, according to popular religious standards this fellow has all the qualifications of a leader of the people of God -- very hard working, a heart to seek God, a desire to give unto the Lord and experience of fellowship with God. This is the type of person that the church is actively seeking, a spiritual mover and shaker. The problem is, "that the things that are highly esteemed among men are an abomination in the sight of God".

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luke 16:15

The Lord was not pleased with this fellow's offering. We can only expect our offering to be received by God when we come to Him according to His terms and not in a way that seems "good to us".

The man, whose name was Cain, had a brother named Abel. Somehow, Abel had an understanding of what was acceptable to God. In order for fallen man to be acceptable before God, there must be an atoning death. This is not really pertinent to the story, nor is the fact that Cain went on to be a murderer and a liar. But rather, the fact that man is constantly leaning upon his own understanding to come up with ideas, plans and schemes to do something for God is a principle that has brought more ruin to the people of God than all of our enemies without. Give some thought about this while waiting for the next story.

 2013/5/14 8:20Profile









 Re: Highly Esteemed by Man

Pilgrim writes..........

"Did God not know who these men were? Did He not know that they were Aaron's sons. Yes, He knew all of that but it did not matter to Him. God is not a respecter of persons and will have things done in His way, and His time and is not interested in "My Ministry". He is interested in transformation, in the inner man. He is not interested in your ministry, at least not nearly as much as He is interested in you. Before there can ever be a proper ministry, there must be a proper vessel. There are many "vessels" today doing "God's work", who have have never let Him do His most important work, in THEM."

And then again writes..........

"The man, whose name was Cain, had a brother named Abel. Somehow, Abel had an understanding of what was acceptable to God. In order for fallen man to be acceptable before God, there must be an atoning death. This is not really pertinent to the story, nor is the fact that Cain went on to be a murderer and a liar. But rather, the fact that man is constantly leaning upon his own understanding to come up with ideas, plans and schemes to do something for God is a principle that has brought more ruin to the people of God than all of our enemies without. Give some thought about this while waiting for the next story."

Brother, these are great insights. I wrote a piece one time about the " saul spirit." This is a thread that runs through all of Scripture. There is the man who has the reputation, the one who is highly esteemd by men, and loves it to be so, although almost always feigning humility, and there is simply the man who has been transformed by God on the inside whose only claim is such. God raises up men, but it is typically a long arduous narrow path littered with failure and brokenness. Not so with the man who is highly esteemed by men, who has natural talents mistaken as gifts from God........bro Frank



 2013/5/14 8:46
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Thank you both Pilgrim and Frank for sharing your insights on such and interesting thread. I was seeing just the other night how when we lean on our own understanding we will get things all wrong. The topic of fellowship and church has been on my heart and I was thinking this does apply here as well. Far to long those in high places have come up with ways of "doing" church(leaning on their own understanding) instead of walking in HIM, submitting to HIM and living unto HIM. GODS way of doing all things is the only true way so why is it that we fight against this so much with attitudes of "MY" instead of "Your will be done oh LORD!"


I often am amazed as the LORD opens my eyes to show me how in my own heart I do this very thing, I lean on my own understanding of things, of times, of events... I look for all sorts of roads and paths to take when the right one, the narrow one is before me all the time and JESUS is there to lead me!

Sorry if I got off topic a bit. I just really can see so many applications of what you have shared here in my own life and heart that I don't want to miss any part of what the LORD has for me :)

God bless
mj

 2013/5/14 9:06Profile









 Re:

Hi sister, certainly not off topic as far as I am concerned, I see the many applications too. One of the signs that is all too prevelant today is when you see "The Ministry of......" or when people put their names before the " name" of " their," ministry. Jesus is the only name we need and His is the only kingdom worth being involved with. So many invoke His name in the building of their own kingdoms and at the very least allow people to call the ministry after their own names.

Cain and Abel is a great example of where it all started. What does Cain bring to the Lord and what does Abel bring? Abel knows his state, but Cain takes the Lord for granted. Cain despises the relationship between God and his brother. Abel has something that his brother does not, he has the ear of God and of course this causes his death, the first martyr if you like. And pharisees have been bringing their unnaceptable offerings and killing the saints ever since...........bro Frank

 2013/5/14 11:54
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Mary Jane,

I do appreciate your contributions. Keep them coming.

Quote:
Cain and Abel is a great example of where it all started. What does Cain bring to the Lord and what does Abel bring? Abel knows his state, but Cain takes the Lord for granted. Cain despises the relationship between God and his brother. Abel has something that his brother does not, he has the ear of God and of course this causes his death, the first martyr if you like. And pharisees have been bringing their unnaceptable offerings and killing the saints ever since...........bro Frank



Thanks for adding to the discussion, Frank.

Your paragraph is a picture of the "children of the flesh" persecuting the "children of the spirit". It has always been that way and it will continue.

One walks by sight while the other walks by faith and brings an offering everyday for the Lord, commensurate with that faith...their hearts.

God did not have Cain's heart but He had Abel's. And Cain was jealous of his brother but there was no need to be jealous of him. Cain could have had what Abel had but did not want to pay the price. So, he devised another way to come to God and was angry that God would not accept him on his terms. After all, Cain thought, "I work hard everyday and believe in God, too".

If you are patient and give men time, their hearts will be revealed and though Cain worked hard and was responsible, and though he believed in God and served him (in his way), he was really serving himself, his flesh. God was not the center of Cain's universe, Cain was. Cain's character reflected the character of his father (Satan) and though he appeared one way before men, he was secretly abiding in Satan and his ways. He certainly was not abiding in the Lord. He was putting on a religious 'show in the flesh' outwardly. But God knows how to reveal men's hearts.

Cain had been incensed before with Abel and his quiet confidence, humility and peace. The day he murdered his brother was not the first day he was jealous and angry with him. Hatred and alienation had been building in Cain until that one fatal day. That one day, Abel offered up a lamb to God and was accepted by God and Cain's offering was rejected. Cain saw Abel's offering as a repudiation of all that he was and he could not take it.

It was more than "the fruit of the ground" that was rejected, it was Cain himself and Cain's ways that God rejected. Offering the fruit of the ground was only a manifestation of his heart's attitude toward God and God wanted nothing to do with Cain's ways, Cain's offerings, wrought by the sweat of his brow.

That was the last straw for Cain and he was about to make a fatal mistake and "blow his cover", his religious cover before men. But only before men, whose admiration he cherished, was his cover blown. The jig was up a long time ago before God. Nothing is ever hidden from Him.

Why do men, try to impress other men when they know that God sees their hearts. Are they so deceived that they don't even know what they are doing when all they talk, walk and think, is only to impress men and be seen of them?

From Genesis to Revelation we have this theme of the flesh against the spirit, good and evil, blessing and cursing, life and death, heaven and hell. And how subtle the flesh is. How subtle the Adversary is. Flesh, evil, cursing and death all masquerade as life. There are only two choices. Never three.

God wants us to know the difference and be able to see through all the machinations of the Enemy so that we know in whom we believe and "another we will not listen to". And if we follow the Lamb, He will lead us safely. He is the only one that knows ALL the machinations of the Enemy.

Do we want our offering to be acceptable to Him.

That offering has been offered for all of us. The one thing that God could never have in the OT and the NT is our heart. It must be given to Him. We give Him our hearts when we abide in Him and His ways, following the Lamb "whithersoever He goeth."

Pilgrim

 2013/5/14 22:47Profile









 Re:

Pilgrim writes..............

"That was the last straw for Cain and he was about to make a fatal mistake and "blow his cover", his religious cover before men. But only before men, whose admiration he cherished, was his cover blown. The jig was up a long time ago before God. Nothing is ever hidden from Him. Why do men, try to impress other men when they know that God sees their hearts. Are they so deceived that they don't even know what they are doing when all they talk, walk and think, is only to impress men and be seen of them?"

Those are great questions brother. Why indeed? I think it is because men are their god. They worship the praise of others, they desire to " rub shoulders," with those who truly hear from God while never hearing from God themselves, only leaning on their own understanding. Yet all the time, resentment and jealousy growing. It is true, one walks by sight ( knowledge and natural ability, both of which puff up) and the other by faith. (typically uneducated and no particular natural ability, that God may be glorified)

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 2013/5/14 23:56





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