Well put!
_________________Cliff
Christ did not save us from the possibility of sin. He saved us from the power of sin. Because He has not saved us from the possibility of sinning, it is possible that we can sin. Because it is possible for a believer to sin, we are warned to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and. spirit - perfecting holiness. In an age of immorality and sensuality, we must be vigilant to guard against the ever pressing in of worldliness. Adam and Eve were created holy and righteous too, until Satan beguiled Eve. I am in agreement with you that holiness is a work of God's grace in the heart of a believer. It is also true that a believer can defile themselves after having been made clean. Nancy's point was not that we should seek holiness apart from God's grace, but that we should remove those things from our life that would pull us back into bondage. We must be careful that we don't jump to conclusions when someone doesn't give us what we feel is the "whole" story. As a pastor, I know how exhausting in can be to have to keep explaining yourself to people who are looking for any hint of deception in your sermon. Sometimes you just need to preach and let folks ask questions later. I am sure that if you were to ask Nancy her position on holiness being by works or grace, her response would be - grace!
I would add that Nancy did a masterful job preaching and delivering her sermon!
A discussion focusing on holiness the process of sanctification. There is much opposion to holiness today but not by those moving forward in him. We were asked the other day do we want to observe the greatest move of God in history or do we want to be a part of it. Thanks for this discussion I am encouraged. Kind regards Oskar.
_________________Oskar Abley
Dosceth1, could 'possibly' just explain a couple of things for me?How can you possibly sin if the power of sin has been taken away? How do you even know what sin is apart from the law?If you sin, you've fallen from grace! You have stepped back into the law.The law has got no hold on dead men. Neither does it have any power to cause you to sin, for without the law there is no knowledge of sin.There is an amazing liberty that comes to the heart of man when he realises that in Christ Jesus God was not counting his sin against them.That really the love of God which we experience through living in his forgiveness compels me to fulfil the requirements of the law which is Jesus anyway.The war is not one of sin in the believer but of belief that I am now the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus apart from the law in spite of my faults, that his forgiveness is compelling, urgent, incessant, thats love friends.Christ is risen, if he wasn't, we would still be living in sin and our faith is futile.
_________________Zeke Oosthuis
Zeke the call to holiness is a battle of the believer putting to death the the misdeeds of the body by the power of the Spirit. The call to holiness is the believer making Spirit led choices daily by crucifying his own desires and living out the Spirit led desires for holiness in his walk with Jesus.You yourself said that holiness is a person. That person is Jesus. Utimately our desire for holiness should stem out of a desire for Jesus himself.My thoughts.Bearmaster.
"How can you possibly sin if the power of sin has been taken away?"I do not mean to imply that a Cbristian will desire to live in sin. True Christians love God and have been given a new heart, mind and desires. The Scipture do point however to the possibility of christians sinning. Consider I John 2:1 NKJV, which was written to faithful christians: " My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." The promise of the NT was freedom from the bondage of sin:sin shall not have dominion over you. That does not mean that we can never be bound by it again. Brother, all you have to do is follow the history of the early church to discover this truth. The corinthian church - rebuked in three to four of pauls letter for their sin and carnality. Galatian church - rebuked for going back under bondage and falling from grace. Out of 7 churches in Revelations, 5 were rebuked sternly for their sins. They were warned to repent- or else. I would also say to you that if you would put you own life under the microscope of the holiness of God, you would discover that there are things that you have done since coming to Christ that has not fully pleased Him. Can you say that you have completly and fully pleased God with every thought and action since you've accepted Him? If not, you prove my point. If you can say yes to that question, I don't think anyone on this site will believe you! Lol. Can we live free from sin - I believe so. But will we? That's the question.
Hi Bear and Doceleth1,God gives grace to humble people and opposes the proud. If your pride gives you the impression that because of Gods grace you can carry on anyway you want, live like a heathen. The opposite of holiness by the way is not sin its this:How much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the spirit of Grace?Its treating the holy blood of Jesus as a common thing, that it was the very blood of God himself spilt for me.If we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.May I also just make reference to Paul rebuking the believers for sin, I haven't checked all the references but from what I have seen in Cor 6 and Gal 5, he always reminds them that its because of what Christ has done that they shouldn't behave a certain way. its like they have forgotten that they have been forgiven.
