Wonderful exposition on Holiness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOg9-2W4F5A

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Natalie

Its false teaching and nothing more than legalism and will never lead to true revival.

She even quotes from that great opposer to the holiness movement and who wrote a book opposing it called inappropriately Holiness - J C Ryle and other Calvinists but then strangely quotes Andrew Murray a holiness preacher who opposed `gradual sanctification`. It takes a spiritually enlightened person to know this important distinction.

"Try harder! Try Harder!" is the message. But you cannot improve the flesh. If one still sins then the old man has not been crucified or rather, one has not seen what Christ did on the cross for us. One has not understood that the problem of sin was dealt the death blow and all it takes is faith that Christ delivers us from ALL unrighteouness, which makes a gradual sanctification a denial of the power of God.

The preacher is saying instead that holiness is in the intention but will not be realised completely until death which is nowhere in the Bible. Please tell me where it says that a Christian cannot stop sinning in this life, without misquoting Roamns 7 that is.

What a tragedy that she is speaking at a Campus Crusade of Christ meeting, and misleading young folk into legalism.

Don`t you realise that something has to change. Many are preaching this message including a brother on this site, and nothing changes. People know that they should be walking closer to Christ but the message they are getting does not interpret into their lives. Their struggle with sin continues.

It is a know fact of life that if something is not working then you need to change tactics. This time it is doctrine.

What I am saying is not just me - it was the teaching of the holiness movement that has all but disappeared, and this new or rather old, method is popular but things just continue in the church with its lack of love and power.

A voice crying out in the wilderness is the way forward. There are a few voices but no-one listens.

During the sermonindex conference in Scotland a few years back there was a question and answer session with a panel of people answering questions.

I asked the question do we expect a revival without being entirely sanctified.

One on the panel a Irish man answered with a puzzled look on his face we have to die before that happens.

The message has been forgotten, you can be sanctified entirely on earth, you can be Holy during this life, but it does come through effort...

Sanctification is by faith......

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Colin Murray

Saints how on earth do you get legalism out of this message? I have listened to it and the sister is right on. She presents a Biblical teaching on the need to be holy. So I ask again where is legalism?

If anything, Nancy Leigh De Moss is preaching a message that clearly needs to be preached from the pulpit. And that is the need for the believing church to be holy.

I have found when those few believers cry out for holiness the cry from the majority is legalism. This is why the hyper grace and sinless perfection doctrines are so poular. And herectical. They absolve one of personal responsibility. The responsibility of maintaining a pure walk before God.

Again I ask where is legalism here? What I see is a sister calling us to be holy before a holy God. Unless I misread my Bible, even in the New Testament, our calling is to be holy. So I ask again where us the legalism here?

I feel tbis message is more right on then what one is going to get out of Joseph Prince or Joel Olstein. Personally I think every member of the forum should listen to this. But then maybe I am legalistic.

Bearmaster

Not only is this an awesome message on God's holiness, but this dear sister could teach our modern day pastors a few things about preaching.

She obviously is not preaching herself, or stories or even her own agenda. She is speaking in weakness and trembling and also in the demonstration of the spirit and of power.

She is not trying to tell the Church that if they live a holy life that they will be in right standing before God, but is rather exhorting an ALREADY RECONCILED bride of Christ to WALK in the holiness that they have already been made partakers of. That is the whole definition of exhortation--to call us to walk in what we already are. It's the whole concept of the indicative teachings in scripture versus the imperatives. The indicatives teach us that we are already holy in Christ because of His working, but the imperatives teach us to now walk in holiness BECAUSE we are holy in Him.

I wish that I was a part of a church that had this kind of preaching.

Lord forgive us for sitting in the seat of the scornful.

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Brother Kevin

TKC amen. I was moved and convicted by this sisters message. I do agree. She indeed was speaking from a heart of trembling moved in awe by a holy God. Also her heart broke in praise of the thrice holy God by singing that great hym Holy Holy Holy. Followed by the worship song I Stand in Awe of You. I found mysekf going to my knees worshipping the thrice Holy God.

In Revelation the angels cry Holy Holy Holy. Holiness is the one attribute of God articulated three times. Holiness is the one attribute that is foundational to all his other attributes.

I exhort all to listen to this sister's message. There us no condemnation. But for sure there will be a conviction of the Spirit for the lack if holiness in our own lives. I was so moved to conviction of sin in ny own life.

If anyone does listen to this message explain where the legalism is? You will not find it.

Bearmaster

There is no legalism here, unless one calls following Biblical mandates legalism.

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy." I Pet 1:13-16.

The word "be" is an action word-- we have to DO something. We are not "automatically" holy when we are saved, or else there would not be statements like the above in scripture. In a sense we are holy if we are saved; i.e. we have the HS, etc but the Bible teaches that we must live out this holiness so that we actually look holy. How? By dying, so that it is no longer we who live but Christ living in us.

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Todd

Natalie,

What a most precious and most needful message.what else is there ?
It is Truth....the Lord has called us to this.

* For as many,as are led by the Spirit of God,THEY ARE the son's / children of God,....but is is a death.
God does not want nor will He lead us into sin.and if we do not allow His Words,that He draws (His Grace),us with to fall to the ground, we can be Holy.

And too,* Blessed is the pure in heart,for they shall SEE God....
To SEE God ?....But He is envisable,...He is the Spirit. / Word,..the Holy One,..He who speaketh,..the Voice

So if we have a pure heart,we can SEE God,..then He gives us an understanding of His Word,..through His Spirit,(manifest,reveal,what He is truly saying.

Please bless us all with a pure heart,O'Lord,that we may SEE you as you
Really are and as a reflection as to how we are to be,....that is Truly/ Truth,..HOLY !...

.Take up the Cross / death,and follow me....a follower of Jesus Chirst.
Jesus did not just die when they hung Him on the cross,..but He lived a
whole life of death to self,and Life to God,His Father.

Natalie,this Lady gave so many good scripture,...
Thank you for sharing with us,with this encouragement.

elizabeth

Elizabeth:
I listened to this message twice already. Oh the importance of holiness! If we could only understand that without holiness we will not see God, then we would truly labor to cleanse ourselves of the filth of this world. The world is so much in us that we do not even realize that what we have in us is indeed the world.

I was chided by some (very few) for questioning whether board games are worldly, by which I meant to say, are board games of the world and therefore am I defiling myself and allowing myself to be defiled for participating in them? It may seem silly to some, but is this not the type of self-examination that we are supposed to be daily doing in our lives?

Many years ago, when I was clueless about holiness I was reading the sermon on the mount and when I read that the pure in heart shall see God, I got so excited. I just wanted to know how I could get a pure heart! I wanted to see God. I did a word search on the word pure in the Bible (very academic) and could not find anything that would give me the answer. The answer was right in front of my nose but I could not see it. Holiness! Those who are pure in heart are HOLY. They will see God. How I yearn for this holiness, and how far from it am I!

This holiness should extend to the smallest areas of our lives. We should look very deep at every thing we do, even the smallest things. We are told by the apostle Paul that in ALL things, whether we eat or drink, we should give glory to God. If we are supposed to glorify God in such (apparently) mundane things, should we look to all the other mundane things as well and make sure that we are not allowing the world to enter into us through them?

This may sound like legalism to some, but Paul calls us to examine ourselves lest we be found disqualified. I would rather exaggerate here on the side of holiness than end up at the end of my life disqualified!

I am speaking for myself. I do not wish anyone to think that I am condemning anybody.

In Christ,
Natalie

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Natalie