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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : WHY DIDN'T THE WELSH AND THE AZUSA STREET REVIVALS MEET ?

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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:This seems to predict a resurgence of the holiness movement.

I would totally 100% agree with that statement. If we are gods people and god is holy and we are to be like out god, holy, then there must be a resurgence in holiness.

Now to I think that means more rules and regulations.... God forbid it...

The issue I see it believers is not with the outward expression or lifestyle but the inward, heart purity of the believer. Holiness of heart.

If your have heart purity then all the outward expression or the outward walk of the Christian would line up with the inward reality.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2013/5/8 9:25Profile
wombat1
Member



Joined: 2010/12/1
Posts: 69
Melbourne

 Re: But I still can't connect d dots. I ask for help!

Hi Joe. There are two models which proclaim the same thing. I will start with Hebrews 6:1? it says not to lay again the FOUNDATION and then it goes on to show seven steps from memory.

Many of these truths were restored after the dark ages. Please forgive my lack of scripture as I am just chatting. It is easy to read the scripture and check it out and then pray about it. Tradition of men make the word of God to none effect. I beg those of you/us who are looked into our view of the word of God as the only true version as firm and as deep as a prisoner in a dungeon, please consider there may be more light then you have previously enjoyed. Please consider..

the first foundation is repentance from dead works, I am led to believe that it was Luther praying as a catholic priest ascending the steps of the cisteen chapel and saying a prayer on each stair before ascending to the next to earn Gods favour. it was then that the Lord spoke to him and said it is not by works but by grace thus starting the prodestant move of God. Later more emphasis on faith in God the next step was proclaimed by many of the reformers. Then the baptism by full immersian was promoted and preached by the anabaptists and later by the baptists fulfilling part of the next step of baptismS, yes it is plural. Then the baptism of the holy spirit. Yes this will be hard for many. Please not each step is humbling and those who have not stepped forward are the most savage opponents of those who move forward.

Consider that Luther killed more anabaptists and with much more savagery than the catholics inflicted on him. And so it has been with each move.

After the doctrine of baptisms comes the laying on of hands, this is the move I came out of and yet in the 1980 we saw many men of God revealed to have fallen for the three Gs. Girls Gold or Glory. It has been said and impossible to prove that one third of all pastors one of the largest Pentecostal churchs was found to be morally wanting.

This is judgement in the house of God. To be part of the laying on of hands move although a later move than the Pentecostal move brings me no advatage as I am allready an entire move of God behind if I have not allowed God into my life to reveal and deal with hidden sin. (Welsh revival foundation)

The last foundation is eternal life. Judgement that we are dead in our sins and actually go through the day to day process Monday to Sunday of dying to self will only then see the last process of resurection life. Paul said it "that I may embrace the sufferings and death of Christ that I may attain unto resurrection life" or words to that effect. And Jesus DID it died and resurrected. Not only that but look at baptism, reckoned death that the new man may live.

This is only the seed so to speak the full process will bring us to the full nature of Christ. You ask where is my support for this? Ephesians 4 to the full stature of Christ. Notice that verse is growing a process not an event. What about without "without spot nor wrinkle nor anysuch thing"?
John 17, actually there is too many to mention.

Whare are we? I believe at the beginning of the last feast. The first part is the feast of trumpets. What does that mean to us? We are called out of the world where we put 1% of our income to mission and the church give only 4 or 5% of that to mission.

Others have a focus on numbers of souls and praise God I would like to be involved in a work that brings in hundreds of millions of souls but my hunger is for maturity.

It is so easy on a long journey to stop somewhere and say this is enough. The children of Israel left Egypt were baptised on the red sea, after Passover. They went onto Pentecost where the people fell into total degradation which is the foundation of the Pentecostal feast. Not surprisingly this was only 50 days into a forty year journey.

It is the rest of the journey that matters to me and should be to all of us. Remember they all died apart from Joshua and Caleb it was the NEW MEN (new man) that went into the Promissed land.

If I am right every man and his dog (australian vernacular) will clearly hear the call to come out of her my people, a call to get real and not just play church even if we are saved. I have been hearing it since I listened to David Wilkersons and realised this was the early part of a massive end time move of God.

Hopefully you will see several old testament shadows which bring light to our journey. If so you will realise the enormity of our journey in front of us. The children of God moved in the desert together and under the direction of the cloud by day a symbol fo the second baptism but do not forget they were also led at night by a pillar of fire. The last part of the baptismS. Baptism of fire, scary? the old man must die without compromise it is this death that brings the life of blinding glory. Not for us and yes I think of those who cast their crowns back to the lamb to give it back to him, what a beautiful example of the nature of Christ.

Hope this was not too interwoven to make sense. If none of that makes sense then maybe just keep this in mind as you walk the walk of faith... BUY the truth and SELL it not.

God bless Oskar.


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Oskar Abley

 2013/6/19 10:07Profile
endlessjoe
Member



Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 157
University of Calabar Nigeria

 Re: Wombat1

Thanks Dear Brother Oscar for your post. I'm sorry my reply is rather belated. I've been away from SI forums for weeks having been engaged in a humble missionary work in a rural community without access to d net.

You raised so many issues in your post. I consider them as outlines rather than a detailed explanation on all d subjects raised. Thru ur post,it came stongly to me again that Pentecost came just about 50days after crossing d "reed" sea.

I trust that your "outlines" will serve as a guide as I engage in a delibrate study on these subject matters in d weeks ahead.


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Emeka Joe Uzosike

 2013/7/21 9:45Profile
endlessjoe
Member



Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 157
University of Calabar Nigeria

 Re:

QUOTE: "Consider that Luther killed more anabaptists and with much more savagery than the catholics inflicted on him."

I've never come across this piece of information before now. Its really d dark side of our much celebrated "Reformation." I felt equally disappointed d day I read of a supposed "heretic" who was killed at d instance or consent of our dear John Calvin.

I pray that D LORD will not lay these acts to their charge on that Day.


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Emeka Joe Uzosike

 2013/7/21 9:53Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

endlessjoe wrote : ////I've never come across this piece of information before now. Its really d dark side of our much celebrated "Reformation." I felt equally disappointed d day I read of a supposed "heretic" who was killed at d instance or consent of our dear John Calvin.
I pray that D LORD will not lay these acts to their charge on that Day.////

Their seems to be much of protestant history that has been suppressed, when I started discovering these things, I became greatly disturbed and still am somewhat, because unawaringly we view much of scripture through the lens of these men.

The common denominator of all of these men are that they viewed Scripture through Augustines understanding, they all quote him as authoritive.

When I look at how Augustine indorced the martyredom of the Donatist.

How the Catholic inqusition feed off of Augustines view of his handling of the Donatist.

How Calvin not only endorsed the heretic Servetus death. But also showed no sympathy and almost seemed to be supportive of the martyredom of the Anabaptist Michael Sattler.

Calvin was no reformed Baptist he was very opposed to those whom deny infant baptism and teach believers baptism.

Zwingly had felix manz drowned for believing in believers baptism

the council of dort, did not react in a loving way

the early American puritans had the quakers put to death even when England told them not to.

I find none of these actions representing what I read in the New Testament.

 2013/7/21 10:24Profile
endlessjoe
Member



Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 157
University of Calabar Nigeria

 Re:

Thanks Dear Papa for your post. As more of these histories hit me, I get quietly scared of what might be left of d love we have for those our Reformist Fathers as we gradually discover their dark side.

Though we should never shy away from history (whether protestant, sacred or secular), it becomes particularly disturbing when history threatens d very foundations of d Cause we cherish and represent. I guess that's why some would prefer to suppress the dark-historic-side of any movement they hold dear.

I still wonder if Acts 17:30 would apply in their case at d judgment day ie if D LORD would simply overlook d bloodshed (as days of ignorance) or hold them accountable for it.
Either way, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes & I also wish they never did it.


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Emeka Joe Uzosike

 2013/7/21 15:43Profile









 Re: WHY DIDN'T THE WELSH AND THE AZUSA STREET REVIVALS MEET ?

Brother Emeka,
I got great joy reading what you wrote. I've pondered and thought these things as well. Studied on the ministries of brother Evan, Frank Bartleman, brother Seymour....these are wonderful glorious testimonies, and the ministries that God gave these dear men.

i'm going to read thru the thread now....with trepidation.

why trepidation? not everybody has to agree that this is that, and that is this, but its rather disheartening watching the saints go at one another. i'm certain you know how much opposition Evan Roberts faced.....tremendous opposition, the same with Brother Seymour, and the Work at Azusa....both from within and without the Body.

its always been like that though....Jesus, on a colt, being welcomed with shouts of joy one day, and within what?...three days, mad shouts of "crucify him! crucify him!"

I have suppositions and thoughts about the questions you posed.....but such a conversation I would rather have face to face, or privately via email. God bless you my brother, neil

 2013/7/21 15:55









 Re: Thanks a bunch Dear Brother Neil !

oh my...I think my 'elevator' doesn't go to the top floor anymore when I press the button, as this was a conversation, I had already opined. you wrote:

Quote:
QUOTE: "what if.....God sends missionaries FROM Africa to North America?....pray on that would you? " I sincerely would Sir. At d moment, I do not rule out d possibility that this Revival that would set the stage for the last Awakening could have its flashpoint in any of these third-world or less economically privileged countries. Having worked on this for years, I've learnt not to rule out such a possibility.

God's richest blessings Sir!
Brother Emeka (still at d heart of tropical Africa)

 2013/7/21 15:59





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