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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : IMPORTANT: Interview: 'God's Smuggler' Brother Andrew on Megachurches, and Persecuted Christians

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MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Bear, I always appreciate your posts, but you are not comparing apples to apples comparing China to America, we have the freedom to worship here, well so for anyway.


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Bill

 2013/2/20 12:46Profile









 Re:

Bill your own words "well so far anyway". How much longer do you think we will have that freedom?

Bear.

 2013/2/20 12:53
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
Brother Greg, I know were your coming from, but how can we set in judgement of what fills any mans spiritual needs? I have sat in mega churches, and in 50 people congregation churches, and have been Blessed by both. A lot of times I was Blessed by something that was said to me by one of the members, and not by the shepherd at all. We have got to stop thinking that our Blessings or our spiritual needs only comes from the size of the congregation. Just go to the Church that "you" feel is feeding you the best, and let God deal with the ministry, not man. Greg, can we both agree that we both want to see folks come to Christ? I Pray we can, so why would either of us want to promote on a world wide place like SI that size matters? The most important thing is to get them saved, and after that they may decide to move on to a larger or smaller church. Lets not make any lost soul, feel under any condemnation on choosing a place to worship.




Yes american christianity now is an rotting apple and the church is turning to worldliness and apostasy. The chinese church is more of a pristine orange that is full of the life of Christ and obedience and purity.

It is not an argument only after size, it is quality. Jesus Christ did not tell us to make converts but disciples.

If a church is not encouraging saints to walk as Christ walked and look to Him in all things then we have to really question whether that large assembly is of the Lord. (1 John 2:6).

Also the Scriptures clearly teach against loving money, seeking after money and building large homes as examples to the flocks but most of the mega-church pastors live large, and build larger and larger buildings.

But they forgot the people are the Church. If we cannot see the grievous error and departing from what is apostolic and genuine perhaps our hearts are leavened by the spirit of the age also.

Joel Osteen might be a believer in Jesus Christ but he is not a biblical elder of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he shares with the false prophet spirit of the age that preaches God's love for all and happiness for all as we live as the world does and seek the same things.

I am not judging brother but sadly stating the obvious, I am not one to name-call or to preach against things but something in my heart is revolting against the whole thing. God surely is calling His called ones out of such compromising places.

This is not a judgement to you personally brother but I am speaking of this in the larger sense and my heart reaction personally now to these things.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/2/20 13:08Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

You know Bear, I really don't know, but our rights are being chiseled away everyday. I truly believe the Church is being attacked now, even by some Christian's, this is why we have to stick together, and not open any doors of dislike for the devil to enter. God is and will always be in control, but lets not make his job any harder, by joining forces with the enemy in any way.


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Bill

 2013/2/20 13:09Profile









 Re:

It stands to simple reason alone that the size of a congregation cannot of itself be a matter of denying the validity of Christ Himself. If this is what is being understood from those who have shared about the implications of mega churches then it must either be a wilful misunderstanding or else those of us who agree that small is biblical and large is not are extremely poor communicators. Although it may seem unlovely I have no doubt that the former and not the latter is the real issue.

Similarly we may have all sorts of reasons why as individuals we take one view or another view. If our own personal view is the basis for what we believe because our experience tells us something different than another has experienced, both views are no less equal. The end is to agree to disagree, which is of course plain nonsense. Greg has shared why he is promoting a particular model of local church life in terms of what he believes is "coming persecution of the church" in the USA and Canada and has several times made reference to the North Korean Church being led of the Holy Spirit through a man to make preparation for what came upon North Korea thereafter. Something of that order can never be a matter of opinion. It is either foolishness or else it is God' wisdom and mercy for this day.

Does anybody have any doubts about just how blasphemous large parts of the church in the USA are? Really, does anyone have any doubt about it. And what of the other great arm of believers who whilst they do not blaspheme by behaving like god's themselves live so as to deny His sovereignty in their lives! What would God' remedy be to such a condition as this? If anyone here had a son or a daughter laid low, drunk with wine, filthy with the filth of the street and headed into certain destruction would not in the end take a rod and lay waste to their bodies with tears so as to drive them home and to obedience? Always knowing that the love which you had bestowed upon them in their innocence would serve to remind them that even now you love them and care deeply for them!

If you cannot answer that in the affirmative then brethren I tell you in plain English you do not yet love your son of your daughter.

When the fierce anger of God is revealed it will be to perfection of those who are His children and to the condemnation of those who will not turn because they will not believe, will not repent and do not love God at all.

The business of GospelFellowships is simply a move of God in the hearts of a few men and women to show mercy. It is a coming to the gutter and asking the sons and the daughters to come aside and be clean. When the compulsion comes in the end it will be by the hand of God Himself and not by flesh and blood.

We have been taught that Rome is the sum of the harlot and the cry "come out of her my people" is the sum of those who are in Rome. Beloved, Rome is just a mother and many are her children. We condemn that which comes easily to us because in our inner parts we secretly comprehend that we are not pleasing God. So we cry out to our former mother and say "harlot". Hypocrisy Cry Hypocrisy! Her sins are our sins. The love of money, fornication...making idols of dead things....deception.....drunk with power.....haters of truth.......boasters........revilers of righteousness.......despisers of loveliness......and many such things which is the portion of all those who knew God in their youth yet turn from simplicity in their years of growing up. It has always been this way and the only evidence we have to the contrary is the scriptures and the apostolic church of those whom Christ chose for that very purpose....that we might have a record in our day to follow their example. May the Lord have mercy on us and cause us to both comprehend the time in which we live, a day of visitation, that we might be dressed in readiness and rise quickly when the Master comes knocking at the door of His Church.

 2013/2/20 13:12
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:



Quote:
sermonindex..
This is not a judgement to you personally brother but I am speaking of this in the larger sense and my heart reaction personally now to these things.



Brother I think we both know each other well enough here to know our hearts, Brother I know "exactly" were your coming from. Just because we don't see eye to eye on everything, don't make either of us right or wrong, it's just makes us the way God made us, different.


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Bill

 2013/2/20 13:14Profile
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Personally, I don't accept the "different strokes for different folks" point of view-- that God happily sets up both mega churches and home churches to accommodate everyone. What it gets down to is that the Lord of the church is Himself building His church, and planting His churches. We do well, then, to be "workers together with Him." For, He warns that every plant (or planting) that His heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up. And what He Himself has not built shall be torn down.

Or to put that another way, the Day of Fire will reveal and try the works of all men-- not of how big they are, but of what "sort" they are. If their works are wood, hay, and stubble, they will all go up in smoke. If their works are gold, silver, precious stones, they shall be purified by the fire.

What I mean is that I guess men will do what they feel to do; it has always been so. But I think it's worth some serious heart searching to remember that God will vindicate what is His own work, and what is not.

Allan


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Allan Halton

 2013/2/20 13:17Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

I feel I have said enough here, I was not promoting an opinion, my heart was speaking that, we cannot open any doors to the evil one, that we are discouraged in anyway about our places of worship. We must let God judge the Church, that way Satan will never know.
God Bless!


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Bill

 2013/2/20 13:23Profile









 Re:

My beloved brethren, pls let's be careful not to hinder the work of God. There is a purpose for the mega-churches, and there is a purpose for the house churches. Who will gain say the fact that God was not behind such great movement like the methodist, or the salvation army. And who will look down on the works of men like watchman nee. I think we should focus on revival, and not on style of church. Like brother Andrew said, let the megachurches exert their inflence on the government and the people, if God has given us peace, and influence let's not throw it away, like paul will say: i wish u are kings indeed that we may be kings with u. If for example the episcopal church of england has not use the advantage of size and their authority, the church in england (as at then) would have been on the mercy of roman catholicism like the one in france. The main burden in our heart at all time should be the need for revival. LET US BE CAREFUL.

 2013/2/20 18:10





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