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joliboy11
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Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 207
Philippines

 Hillsong Money Machine - Mon 18th Feb 2013 (A Current Affair)

Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TUT98mOwKs

 2013/2/19 6:15Profile
sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re: Hillsong Money Machine - Mon 18th Feb 2013 (A Current Affair)

Saw it already.

Money talks.

Hmmm.

The Mega churches are under the spot light.

55 million a year in revenue.

All tax free.

But church goers ...pew warmers.

Have a 10% heavenly tax imposed on us when in church attendance.

On top of normol taxes ...already mandatory paid to ...uncle Sam.

But the recipients of the heavenly tax.

Pay little or NO tax.

Hmmm again.

Thats all im gonna say.

Well for now.



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Bro Stephen

 2013/2/19 6:24Profile
SkepticGuy
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Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

certainly money has become the objective of many churches and leaders today, but 2 say sumthing like "But church goers ...pew warmers" about people u have never met, and hearts that only god knows (and is impossible 4 u 2 know) is extremely haughty.

i am not shocked by much, but this morning i am in shock at the level of judgementalism on this forum. i dont doubt that there are problems in the church but 2 throw an entire blanket of judgementalism and condemnation on churches, pastors and "pew-warmers" that no1 here has ever known or visited and basically knows nothing about is sickening 2 me.

and u people expect revival? i think revival needs to start right here on this forum. it should begin w/ repentence of such behavior and attitudes.

 2013/2/19 9:10Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:


This is sad to see, the Church was never meant to be a big organization like this. This one burden for us to be involved in encouraging smaller groups of believers that are not under a non-profit or gov't affiliated group: www.gospelfellowships.net


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/2/19 9:39Profile









 Re: Hillsong Money Machine - Mon 18th Feb 2013 (A Current Affair)

This is very sad. How accurate the reporting is in its entirety is difficult to know. I did note that the newscaster did acknowledge that the employees of Hill Song paid their own taxes. In view of this the problem would clearly be in the area of a "company" which is claimed to be a "church" having a tax free status and a "short book" on accounts to explain it all. If as believers we simply let go of the big desire and laid hold of the little desire we would see much less of the Lord' name being brought into disrepute among the unbelieving world.

Matthew 20:22-25 is the passage which is normally quoted when we speak about taxes and of course the Lord made the point "who's head is on the coin?" But just in case we thought that other taxes are somehow "special" and therefore fall outside of this attitude, Matthew 17: 24-27 sets the basis for paying "religious" taxes as well. There is no excuse for the church behaving like wolves in the way it presents itself to the world over this issue of money especially. We should give no cause for offence and rather be willing to pay double what is required rather than make men stumble over the name of Christ. Just remember that when we cause unbelievers to stumble they will perish in the end. Those who love the Lord already know the truth and we can at least turn to the Lord for their peace. Where do you suppose the greater condemnation will lie? Those who cause the unbeliever to curse the name of the Lord? Or when those who already have life speak ill of one another because they are offended?

 2013/2/19 10:10
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re: Hillsong Money Machine - Mon 18th Feb 2013 (A Current Affair)

It's pretty clear that the documentary has an agenda. From the selection of interviewees to the camerawork, it was deliberately constructed to achieve a certain bias. The producers of the documentary had little regard for truth.

Without defending Hillsong (since I have no familiarity with the facts), here's their response to the documentary: http://hillsong.com/statement-hillsong-church-re-a-current-affair-18-feb-2013

 2013/2/19 12:25Profile
sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

I am very aware of this Group - have met many of the people within this church ... have even had contact with its ministers and high end leaders. So you are Wrong! Ive even done work for its pastors (on a personal level) Including the main Man ...in the article!

So im shocked you would jump in so soon....to dishonour my character.

Some of my closest friends are still * in* this mega church.

And i spent years growing relationships with its people.

And i Can genuinely affirm and attest i sincerely loved - - and still love -- many of the people within its huge spritual sphere and influence.

Although i made what i thought was a quality choice at the time to leave the hillsongs group ( again i will say the people in it are lovely )

Its important to understand its the system, its the organization, and the institions we address ( and not the people within it).

Attacking people on a personal level has NEVER been my go.

Pew warmers was used merely as a COLLECTIVE term for the whole of the congregation that feel obligated to tithe weekly( and or on a fornightly on a regular basis ( knowing this chuch ) as i do ...i do know tithing was imposed on the listener and attendee's

I do not know if they currently still teach the mandatory tithe

But i would be surprised if they Only teach *free will * offereings now
Stewardship - and no mention of new testamet tithing is ever mentioned

That would be a huge reversal of things" held to" in the past.

Finally i dont feel condemned for JUDGING. ( i judge a system ) yes.

As i am judged of no one accept the Lord.

Therefore in light of that ...its a very SMALL thing if i be judge of you or of man's judgment. (IN LIGHT OF WHO I REALLY ANSWER TOO)

Furthermore would we ...shall we ...condemn the apostle peter who said people would make merchandise of us (us) through ( want/personal desire) and clervely disguised cloaked Words

Personally speaking now: i actually "hold to" the view that God sometimes uses the media to judge and expose things. Because christians often refuse "to judge. There own"
Its called i believe "church discipline"

The apostle peter (yes its a general comment) but if the shoe fifs sobeit

Declared men and women would exploit you ... and achieve this by means of merchandising the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The issue is finances wealth and accountabilty here.

Without getting personal.

But if youve done nothing wrong ...there is nothing to fear.

They say...


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Bro Stephen

 2013/2/19 18:31Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1586


 Re:

Hi All,
Firstly let me say I have really enjoyed some of the songs that have come from Hillsong and has someone pointed out recently to me that if their was no music you wouldnt go out of your way to hear Brian Houston preaching either because of his Charisma or Content of message.
Why should we be surprised?The USA has lead the way as regards the mega church,poor teaching,money making machine;should Australia be any different?This Church has at least some redeeming features and am sure some great people in it.
However I do agree the programme has an agenda,they have a woman on that is scripturally illiterate and a Pastor from another church(Bill) who should know better than to give the world bullets to throw at the Church.If he has a problem( even though he is correct ) should not use the Court of the World to solve it.
For the rest of us we know that the house that is not of the Lord will not stand and Judgement will come at the Lords timing,
Yours Staff

 2013/2/19 20:07Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

'I do not know if they currently still teach the mandatory tithe'

So you have to put your name on your tithe and fill in a register kind of mandatory?


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2013/2/19 21:25Profile
sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Under law (old covenant, old testament)

Tithing was imposed on the people ( jews)

It was NOT optional.

Therefore to teach tithing in the new testament

Carries the same imposition (with it)

You are in effect robbing God (under law)

If you dont or didnt bring your Tithe.

Hence its compulsory nature.

Incidently mamy of these same teachers/pastors that enforce the tithe.

Are quick to point out the law has been "abolished" under the new testament

But when you say (okay thou hast well said) and so tithing is no LONGER an imposition on the people ...they say now wait a minute - the bible still teaches "tithing"

There afraid of missing out ...on the money.

Someone from hillsongs once said to me.

Even though that person agreed ...the bible teaches stewardship of ALL we own and possess ...not just the tenth portion.

But isnt that why its a FAITH walk - i replied?

The oddity to that i suppose is the claim " that there faith " churches.
(And teach the walk of faith) but teaching ten percent however almost garantees so much coming in. So its safer to retreat and lean on "tithing"

Tithing garantees the bills are paid.

So were still under law? Then if we insist on tithing under a new covenant

You have to prove tithing is still new testament (under grace) correct? If we hold to tithing!?

You cant have your cake and eat it ...too.

Teaching law is gone-skies (abolished)

Then in the same breath ...teach the tithe.

Nay rather let everyman give as he purposes in his heart

Not grudginly or

OUT OF NECESSITY.

(Seems to me ...God doesnt ...want necessity ...giving)

for God loves cheerful giving and givers.

Not $50 bux given grudgingly (as it were)



Me wonders how you can have it both ways ???


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Bro Stephen

 2013/2/20 2:56Profile





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