| Re: Taking them by faith|
I'm not one to advocate a large church, however there is a place for such in different places I'm sure. I have learned to take a good many things by faith, especially people and leadership and their directions, etc...If I don't feel a check in my spirit about something or when I ask the Lord about it, I stay silent as long as He's silent toward me about it.Who art thou to judge another mans servant seems to ring in my ears much these days as my words have become increasingly fewer and fewer. I guess I have so much on my own plate to worry about(or if you like ... take care of) that I don't have time to spend looking at what others are doing, outside of an occasional glance or maybe even a short prayer for them.It would be my hope that a church that size with all the ministries they have and the very large staff they have would be honoring to the Lord and that He would keep them from the evil one.
| 2013/2/18 17:23||Profile|
| Re: But Questions Need to be Asked|
Where this may be good. Is such a large church God's best? We see Jesus laying out the model for the church in Mat. 18. Jesus said where two or three came together he was present. Such a gathering conotes intimacy with Jesus and one another. Where does one get this at First Baptist? Is this what Christ envisioned for his church in the first century? Where do you enter into the lives of the people at FBC Dallas?
How could such a large church whether persecution? Such a huge venue would be easier for government control. Faced with the loss of their 501c I imagine FBC would capitulate and compromise the gospel.
I remember the story of a Vietnamese pastor who saw persecution coming from the communist. Borrowing a page from the Communist's own hand book he divided his church into cell groups of three people each. Not only did the cell groups grow and multiply. They were harder to infiltrate by the government.
Botttom line. Bigger is not always better.
| 2013/2/18 18:31|
| Re: |
It's really hard for me to personally find anything wrong with the name Church in it, after all we are the church. So is it wrong to have a mega Church inside the walls? I have always been told, Bill you always think way outside the box, and I have always took that as a compliment. I guess my thoughts would be, that the mega churches will touch more lost souls because of the exposure they get, and as long as they are running the church they way God would have it, well who am I to judge?
| 2013/2/18 18:36||Profile|
| Re: |
bearmaster.....Such a gathering connotes intimacy with Jesus and one another. Where does one get this at First Baptist? .
Bear, I am a member of a large Church, and I can personally tell you, I have never been to a Church were the intimacy with one another and God is better. If you have never been a member of a large Church as I have for 16 years. Trust me, when I walk in the doors, I feel like I am walking into an old Country congregation, hugs and lots of Love and how are you's shown at the doors. It's a preference, and just because some don't prefer the larger Churches, I respect that, I have been Blessed so much, and had the opportunity to Bless and Pray for old and new members, I just could not ever see me going anywhere else.
| 2013/2/18 18:46||Profile|
| Re: |
Rember that Jesus ministered to the multitudes, there are many references to the multitudes pressing in on Him, note the woman with the blood issue, the multitudes who needed feed and several occasions, Peter even needed to use his boat so Jesus could teach the multitudes at the sea shore. So just because anyone of us belongs to a small gathering as opposed to a larger gathering is not a good test for spirituality.
What I think we focus on is cost, the cost of the building in this case..if we are not careful we can end up in Judas' camp complaining to the Lord that the cost of the ointment could have been better spent on feed or giving alms to the poor. Again...you have to trust that God is working through the leadership of this church and its congregation to move in that direction in "their" stewardship of the funds they seem to be entrusted with.
As to the cell groups? I have seen this method work well in many different settings, but God is diverse and is able to direct His church however the circumstances dictate, in order to meet the needs present for the time period and the church grows.
| 2013/2/18 19:48||Profile|
| Re: |
Personally I am seeking to be guided by two words I felt the Lord whispered into my heart a while ago:
| 2013/2/18 19:50||Profile|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| Re: |
I'm actually amazed that there would be a question on this, If its not up your street just walk away, It is before his own master that he stands or falls.
I know nothing of this church, but taking the article at face value I'm saying AMEN!
Does anyone know what this church preaches, what its outreach program is to the community, does it feed the poor, and more importantly does it preach Jesus Christ and him Crucified?
You are falling into the same trap as the pharisees, Dont judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
| 2013/2/19 2:19||Profile|
| Re: |
I have been in prayer much about my previous response to this topic. I have considered the words I chose and upon reflection feel that some were written from the wrong heart and have since repented of my attitudes. On the topic I still do have many questions as to whether the money GOD gives and allows should be used in such a way but I will work those things out with HIM. I do still see Bearmaster point and the points that Greg makes.
God bless and thank you for allowing me to clarify what I have been seeing.
| 2013/2/19 8:08||Profile|
| Re: |
it is troublesome to me to read the responses to this article on this forum. what a bunch of judgemental hogwash, my friends. have any of you who have responded ever darkened the doorway of this church, or met robert jeffress? do u know anyone who goes to this church? ever visited their website to see what they believe or what outreaches they may have?
bearmaster and others are crying out aganist this mega-church while at the same time LOVE times square church in nyc, founded by david wilkerson (speaker of many false prophecies), that has a weekly attendance of 8000. times square church is a mega-church that is ok, but this one in downtown dallas is not? who gets 2 make that decision? based upon what?
people, come down of your high horse and judgementalism. whether this church builds a $130M campus or duznt has no effect on your life, so leave it alone. if it is not of god then it will be judged by him, not any of u. if it is of god then u are kicking against the goads and struggling against god.
sum1 compared jeffress and this church 2 judas, but actually when the woman poured out expensive purfume on jesus it was JUDAS who declared how that money could be used to feed the poor. sounds 2 me that sum people have things backwards around here.
also, as sum1 w much construction experience i can tell u that it duznt take much to build a $130M campus these days. and i bet their are a number of architects, engineers, contractors, carpenters, etc in the dallas area that were very grateful 2 be able 2 keep their people employed during these economic tough times. i bet sum of them even give thanks to jesus christ 4 that project that put food on their tables.
| 2013/2/19 8:35||Profile|
| Re: |
MaryJane I have read your post and do not see that it was written from a wrong heart. But you had the courage and conviction to ask the questions that should be raised. If this church was a liberal dead church then we could say they were operating in demoic darkness. But FBC Dallas says they are built in the preaching of the Bible.
If they are built in the preaching of the Bible then what of the passages where the Son of God said the foxes have holes and the birds have nest. But the son of man has no place to lay his head. It was pointed out that Jesus ministered to large crowds. Indeed! Out in the open, in the elements, sitting on hard ground. So to look at this facility one must wonder what Christ would think.
Does anyone really think sinners would be drawn to such a place. And by sinners I mean the lost, the last, and the least. Maybe a few rich Texans. Those with big pockets. But what did Jesus tell the rich young ruler who wanted to follow him. It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus also told the Pharissees who loved money that what is highly valued among men is detestable in God's eyes. Interesting that the evangelicals who decry the prosperity gospel of the charismatics are the very same ones who build the multi million structures. And many go into debt to do so.
The article said this structure is to refurb downtown Dallas. What about transforming the hearts of the people of Dallas. Doing that through prayer and the word. What would have happened if this church had spent more time in prayer wailing over their lost city and crying out for souls. What would have happened had this church cried for the baptism of God's Spirit to transform hearts. One must wonder?
I know to pose these questions people will say "You judge, you judge". For sure this church is accountable before God. But when such things are done in the name of Christ then the questions have to be asked. Particularly when the head of the church had no place to lay his bead.
| 2013/2/19 8:47|