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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?

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ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Luke 24: 45-49: NASB

45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

48 “You are witnesses of these things.

49 “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you;

Note the phrase "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins" in verse 47. Can't get any plainer then this, can you?
No repentance, no forgiveness, no salvation.


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Sandra Miller

 2013/3/22 11:09Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

In whose name is repentance proclaimed, whose minds are opened that we might understand what and where repentance comes from, in our minds being opened to understand these scriptures?

Who is sending this repentance forth unto the believer, which is the preordained promise of the Father of Jesus Christ.

I AM Not saying that repentance is not what should happen in the life of the believer, I am saying that this repentance comes with salvation that we might attain to repentance in our lives by the power of God the Father, through the Holy Spirit and in the Name and Life of Jesus Christ that is birthed in us by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, which is "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Christ through His proclaimed and given repentance:

Phillip

My repentance has no effect on salvation, only His repentance given me by the Father can open my mind to the truth of Jesus Christ who is now my life and repentance and oneness with The Father as a son and brother to the Christ that is in me, which Paul proclaims in all his epistles.


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Phillip

 2013/3/22 19:59Profile
Elibeth
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Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:

Philip,
I don't know if I can explain this very well,..because I am not so good at that sometimes,..but maybe I could go in steps,hoping to help.
You ask:
In whose Name is repentance proclaimed ?

It is the Name of Jesus,..the Name of God.
We must remember that His Name Philip,is everything that is in that Name
Which is the Whole Word of God,...Truth,and Truth is everything as God Himself see's it ,..the righteous judgments of God,...how He judges in everything. In Rev.,it says "and His Name is called,The Word of God" .
We are called by His Name.

We cannot come to the Father,except He draw us. So in due season,He
sends forth the Seed,which is 'the Word of God into our heart ( which is the Word of the kingdom) and through His Grace: the Devine influence upon the heart, (the hearing of the Word ) now ,what are we going to do with the Seed,(word) ?..that He is showing us ( that we are hearing )that He is righteous,..and we are dreadful sinners,...this Grace drawing,...striving with us to repent,..we have been going in the ways of the world / flesh,now turn and go in His WAY,..who IS the WAY,and go toward the beckoning of His Spirit / Word. ( we were clothed in filthy rags but NOW He want us to cast off the filthy rags, and be clothed in righteousness by His Spirit.

We remember the Seed example: some hear the Word of the kingdom ,and understandeth it not,then cometh the wicked one,and catcheth away that
which was sewn in the heart. (Seeds fell by the wayside )

we were going after the way of the earthly kingdoms,now He is drawing us to His Heavenly Kingdom,..and what do we do in a Heavenly Kingdom?
This Word / Seed ,through His Grace, is drawing us to come and die to self-will and to seek the King' will...." What would Thou have for me to do Lord? "
We now,have the opportunity to turn around, ( repent )

Philip, there are some here that could edit and do a much better job of explaining,I'm sure, than I can.

Forgive me
now please salvage what you can....
elizabeth

 2013/3/22 22:55Profile
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

"My repentance has no effect on salvation, only His repentance given me by the Father can open my mind to the truth of Jesus Christ"

No, that is simply not scriptural doctrine. It's not "His repentance" that opens your mind Phillip. It's His grace that will lead You to repent.

You want everything happen externally to you with you as a person claiming no active participation. That's not salvation, as your original 'you' will remain the same, 'uncracked' and untouched in the pocess. The 'self' part has to repent and change, you cannot adopt the new creation without giving up the territory of old 'self'. If that would be possible, God would simply given us an upgrade - Adam 2.0.

 2013/3/22 23:48Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

God has made the gospel message so simple that even a child can understand it. We don't have to understand the deep things of theology such as Calvinism vs Arminianism to be saved or to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus and the prophets and apostles kept it simple so that the people who didn’t know God could understand the basic salvation message; repent or perish, repent and believe, turn from your sins and trust in Christ, turn or burn. Judgment Day is coming, heaven or hell. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time. Believe that Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day.

I believe in the drawing of the Holy Spirit and that salvation is of the Lord, a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart. But unbelievers don't necessarily have to hear and understand those deep truths to be saved. They need to hear the basics of the gospel most importantly. After they are saved they start being acquainted with the deeper things of God as they begin the discipleship and sanctification process. I’m not saying there’s no place for the preaching of the deep truths of God in evangelism but I’m saying it’s not always necessary to preach those deeper truths. If you feel led to preach certain deep truths to the lost that’s fine, I sometimes feel led to do that. But don’t make it a binding requirement for every single gospel message.


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Oracio

 2013/3/22 23:55Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

I still don't see how anyone can repent and receive salvation without that repentance being of God. Yes it is of Grace through faith, this I understand. It is like John's baptism of water and Christ's baptism in the Holy Spirit. One is earthly and the other is heavenly. Which one brings salvation to the spirit and which one brings salvation to the soul? It must be the spirit first that the soul/mind can come to the things of God. Without this, "being born again", we cannot understand the things of God, that includes repentance, unless it is of God, it means nothing. Now because it is of God, "peradventure God would grant me repentance", then if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse from all unrighteousness." Repentance comes from forgiveness and cleansing after confessing.

Sorry, but this is the only way I see it. Christ in me first then faith upon faith from precept upon precept wrought in me by the Holy Spirit and the Mind of Christ, then I understand what true repentance, not just me saying I repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in me.

IN Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/3/23 1:23Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

I still don't see how anyone can repent and receive salvation without that repentance being of God.



I see lot of worldly wisdom in your arguments. If one comes with his own intelligence he cannot understand the things of above. That is why there is no respect for simple scripture like Acts 2-38 :-38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Your logic is something like this, if God is the one who is creating life then why should man and women unite after marriage? I used to think like this when I was a Child. It is through a willful union of Man and women God brings life on this earth. Which I understood when I grew up.

Same way though repentance is from God it is man accepting and yielding to it is what causes one to repent. Bible says we need to yield to our temptations to produce sin leading to death (James 1-14). How much more can repentance be produced without a man yielding to it?

An unrepentant man cannot be born again. Why? to be born again you need to die to our old self. It is God who causes us to die to our past life when we repent from our sinful life. By repenting from our past life and turning to God, a sinner proclaims to God that he hates his past life like how Jesus asked his followers in Luke 14:25. If God can cause an unrepented man to die by force then he becomes a murderer because he has killed someone who did not want to die. So by proclaiming that without repentance a man can be born again you are proclaiming God to be a murderer.

A simple 12 min audio from Zac Poonen on repentance explains the need for repentance for Salvation. Please listen to it acknowledging that our human intelligence is worth zero, then God will show the truth.

http://www.cfcindia.com/tbsaudio/25_Basic_Christian_Teachings/07_Repentance.mp3

Forgive me if I sounded harsh.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/23 2:37Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Sorry, but this is the only way I see it. Christ in me first then faith upon faith from precept upon precept wrought in me by the Holy Spirit and the Mind of Christ, then I understand what true repentance, not just me saying I repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in me.



Philip, it seems like we have more in common on this issue than we may think. I am not saying we can just say we repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in us. That's one of the main reasons I posted the op, to try to explain biblical repentance as a turning from and hatred of sin.

I understand your concern regarding a "fleshly" or "earthly" repentance and I would agree. The Bible speaks of a sorrow of the world that leads to death. True repentance entails a God-centered or God-focused sorrow and hatred of our sin, and it is a work of the Holy Spirit in one's heart.

But our job is not to just tell the unbeliever that God must first work that work in their heart before they can repent and believe in Christ. If we do that they will become complacent in their sins and their blood will be on our hand in a major way.

As Christ's witnesses we are to tell them that God commands them to repent and turn to Christ while there is still time. We are to warn them to flee from the coming wrath, to flee to Christ for forgiveness and salvation.

My main concern in the op was the watered down gospel of no repentance, of no turning from and hatred of sin. And it seems you agree that genuine repentance has those elements. Another concern was to try to make it as simple and understandable as possible, because I was dealing with the basics of the gospel. Those basics are what we are to preach to a lost and dying world all around us.


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Oracio

 2013/3/23 2:39Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Just got done reading Matthew Henry's Commentary on Proverbs 1:23 and thought it was very relevant to this discussion.

"Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you."-Proverbs 1:23

"Turn, that is, return to your right mind, turn to God, turn to your duty, turn and live. (2.) The promises are very encouraging. Those that love simplicity find themselves under a moral impotency to change their own mind and way; they cannot turn by any power of their own. To this God answers, "Behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you; set yourselves to do what you can, and the grace of God shall set in with you, and work in you both to will and to do that good which, without that grace, you could not do." Help thyself, and God will help thee; stretch forth thy withered hand, and Christ will strengthen and heal it. [1.] The author of this grace is the Spirit, and that is promised: I will pour out my Spirit unto you, as oil, as water; you shall have the Spirit in abundance, rivers of living water, John vii. 38. Our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those that ask him. [2.] The means of this grace is the word, which, if we take it aright, will turn us; it is therefore promised, "I will make known my words unto you, not only speak them to you, but make them known, give you to understand them." Note, Special grace is necessary to a sincere conversion. But that grace shall never be denied to any that honestly seek it and submit to it.-Matthew Henry's Commentary


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Oracio

 2013/3/23 13:25Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Who will honestly seek and sincerely submit to the grace of God?

Who can read the Word and take it aright on their own? It takes the Holy Spirit to teach us the Word and make it the telling portion that divides it rightly and makes it from above and not below.

Galatians 3:19-24 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Before faith came all were, especially the Jews were all shut up unto the faith that was to be revealed after the Cross. WE know that the faith of Abraham was given to keep the old testament saints able to stay in God's Grace, but this was not the Faith revealed after the Cross. Now to believe by faith which comes from above revealed in us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and when He said, "It is finished", all that compasses from the foundation of the world this faith that God intends to be the vehicle by which salvation is come, is birthed in the believer when God gives the believer to the Son and places the incorruptible Seed of the Father in us, we are saved and if Christ be in you, you are saved indeed.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Faith was not yet revealed, not because the fathers wanted light, but because they had less light than we have. The ceremonies of the Law might be said to shadow out an absent Christ, but to us he is represented as actually present, He being the only way of achieving the fullness of His Faith as we grow up into Christ and thus while they had the mirror, we have the substance.

We have received the Holy Spirit by simply believing. We were sealed by that Spirit and knew thereby that We are redeemed and the sons of God. If they possessed this seal of divine righteousness why should they add to it the works of the law? They acted, indeed, foolishly.

Is it finished or not. Is it grace by faith and adding repentance, completely finished or Grace plus asking for the Holy Spirit, finished or do we have to add the moral law, If repentance is necessary for salvation then God must grant repentance unto salvation when He, "1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who is the Word, that is living, who is birthed in us?
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

This is He that is in us, He that makes us son's of God and fellow heirs with Christ. He is our only hope of Glory.

(Strange, unscriptural doctrines concerning the Holy Spirit are taught in different sects and parties. Some teach that the Christian should earnestly seek this gift, and the baptism with the Spirit. They claim that each individual must make a definite experience of receiving the baptism with the Spirit. That we must repent first before we can receive the gift of salvation from God. This seeking includes, what they term, a full surrender, etc., and after enough seeking, surrender, giving up and praying, they claim to have received the power of the Holy Spirit. The argument here refutes this teaching. The Holy Spirit is given to every believer in Christ.) At the same time we are born again into the sonship of Christ Life, we receive the Holy Spirit of Promise by the prayer of the Son to the Father.

Now that I am now saved I rejoice in repenting and confessing and begging for the strength of turning and being blessed by the cleansing of all unrighteousness.

Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, then repentance means something to me for now I have the MInd of Christ and know how to repent.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/3/25 4:22Profile





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