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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3316
Texas

 Re:

I just wanted to clear something up, because "sometimes" folks read more into your posts than you originally meant. I have never in my life have had a flu shot, so I did not post to condemn or condone the shot, I could not possibly tell you anything about the shot. The route I have chosen my entire 61 years, is keep my immune system charged up with natural with herbal remedies.

A strong immune system means your body can fight back very well when it is under attack. Thousands of times a day your immune system helps combat all sorts of minor invasions, from bacteria, viruses, parasites and many other intruders.

Boosting the immune system is very beneficial and it is relatively easy to help the body to improve it. I make sure I laugh a "LOT" everyday, laughter has long been held as the "Best Medicine" and in fact, science has now found that every cell in the body has a receptor for the substances produced when we are happy. Every cell is therefore influenced by how we feel. Our first line of defence against any disease is therefore Happiness!

I take 5,000 iu of vitamin D3 "the best quality and most expensive one on earth" and a regular grocery store multivitamin, not even a cold in ten years. Whether you believe it or not, or think it is hocus-pocus, a person's attitude plays a big part in their health. I am a very,very positive person, studies seem to show that people who have a positive outlook on life tend to be healthier. There are many factors which can cause the immune system to deteriorate.

Some of them include poor diet, not enough sleep, not enough exercise, too much stress and many other factors.
"BUT" you can increase the strength of your immune system and there are certain herb combinations which can have a tremendous effect. I am not a doctor and I really can't tell you why I stay well all the time, but I contribute my wellness to God, and the way I live "being a cheerful person" diet and exercise, plenty sleep, and my herbal remedies. If a flu shot works for you, by all means you probably should get one, they might work for me, but I have never had a cold, so I could not possibly know.


_________________
Bill

 2013/1/12 17:53Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

the inactive ingredients in the flu vaccine are egg protein, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and thimerosal

formaldehyde: Research studies of workers exposed to formaldehyde have suggested an association between formaldehyde exposure and several cancers, including nasopharyngeal cancer and leukemia
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/formaldehyde


thimerosal: The use of mercury in cosmetics is illegal in the United States and yet the flu vaccines that are directly injected in your bloodsteam still contain it.

 2013/1/12 19:08Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi proudpapa,

I think that you misunderstand what a flu shot does. The flu shot targets various strains of influenza that are expected to be troublesome. They aren't absolutely effective because influenza mutates. In most cases, influenza shots are meant to prevent an epidemic or pandemic of influenza (such as the Spanish Influenza that affected more than 500 Million people in 1918). They are modified to eliminate a known strain outbreak.

Flu shots are greatly effective in preventing the particular strain of flu for which they have been designed. However, a very small number of people have "reactions" to vaccines and others will contract a mutated or alternate strain of the flu. However, influenza vaccines have been extremely effective in preventing deaths associated to major outbreaks.

The 62% that was cited in the article (and not necessarily claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated) is in regard to a study of the current strain of flu that is affecting many people in North America and the effectiveness of the most widely available vaccine distributed in America. However, the flu vaccine will be modified to target this current strain and distributed when available, just as was true a few years ago with an outbreak of the H1N1 flu strain.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm62e0111a1.htm?s_cid=mm62e0111a1_w

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2012-2013.htm

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/top-13-flu-myths

So, your claim about danger from mercury, aluminum and other "poisons" (which are in less concentration than a pack of fish sticks) is offset by the accuracy of the flu shot itself. The reason that there has not been another worldwide flu pandemic similar to the 1918 outbreak is because of the widespread availability of targeted flu vaccinations. The same can be said of other vaccinations that you have no doubt had in your body (e.g. polio, tuberculosis, measles, chicken pox vaccinations, etc...).

I hope that this makes more sense. I agree with you in that a person's personal liberty should be respected in regard to such things. I would expect that the government should allow them to follow their consciences. However, there are some key medical positions where it could be a danger for certain non-vaccinated individuals to work.


_________________
Christopher

 2013/1/12 19:12Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi proudpapa,

Again, I think that it is important to truly perform research before warning individuals about some of the ingredients in vaccines. There are many myths and even conspiracy theories that are spread about such things. We want to be careful not to spread things that aren't true or those things that pollute the accuracy of the issues themselves.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/COMMONMYTHSABOUTVACCINESDEBUNKED.aspx

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-204_162-10007546.html

http://www.webmd.com/vaccines/how-effective-is-flu-vaccine


_________________
Christopher

 2013/1/12 19:19Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi ccchhhrrriiisss

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote ///Flu shots are greatly effective in preventing the particular strain of flu for which they have been designed.///

I agree, Flu shots are only effective in preventing the particular strain of flu for which they have been designed.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote //The 62% that was cited in the article (and not necessarily claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated) is in regard to a study of the current strain of flu that is affecting many people in North America and the effectiveness of the most widely available vaccine distributed in America//

The 62% effectiveness I got from a pro vaccine artical, it is disturbing that without any facts on your part you underminded what I posted by saying "not necessarily claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated" yes as claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated from CNN
(CNN) -- So you got a flu vaccine this season, and you've been reading about the flu epidemic. You might be wondering: Will the vaccine keep me healthy?
The answer: The vaccine isn't a guarantee that you'll be flu-free. In fact, it's about (((62% effective,))) said the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,((((( Dr. Thomas Frieden,))))) on Friday January 11, 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/health/flu-vaccine-effectiveness/index.html

If anything The CDC is going to round the effetiveness of the flu shot up not down,

many years ago I researched Monsanto chemical company what I found is that there is a revolving door Monsanto and The FDA. The same reality is the case between the CDC and the Large pharmaceutical Corporations, the influenza vaccination is a multi billion dollar business. multi billion dollar business do wounders with marketing

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote ///So, your claim about danger from mercury, aluminum and other "poisons" (which are in less concentration than a pack of fish sticks)///

I have never heard of anyone coming down with the Guillain-Barre' syndrome from a pack of fish sticks but the swine influenza vaccine in 1976-1977 caused more harm than what the flue did in those years the CDC still admittes that current flu shots may still cause some cases of Guillain-Barre' syndrome.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote/// The reason that there has not been another worldwide flu pandemic similar to the 1918 outbreak is because of the widespread availability of targeted flu vaccinations.///

Do you think maybe hot water, soap and better nutrition may have any thing to do with it?? It is doubtful that the flue pandemic has been as off set as you say by flu shots when we take in the reality that those whom get a flu shot have never been the majority.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote///I hope that this makes more sense. I agree with you in that a person's personal liberty should be respected in regard to such things. I would expect that the government should allow them to follow their consciences. However, there are some key medical positions where it could be a danger for certain non-vaccinated individuals to work.///

this part is well said



 2013/1/12 20:01Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi proud,

Quote:

The 62% effectiveness I got from a pro vaccine artical it is disturbing that without any facts on your part you underminded what I posted by saying "not necessarily claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated" yes as claimed by Dr. Frieden as stated from CNN
(CNN) -- So you got a flu vaccine this season, and you've been reading about the flu epidemic. You might be wondering: Will the vaccine keep me healthy?
The answer: The vaccine isn't a guarantee that you'll be flu-free. In fact, it's about (((62% effective,))) said the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,((((( Dr. Thomas Frieden,))))) on Friday January 11, 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/health/flu-vaccine-effectiveness/index.html


I was trying to point out to you that he is just one man citing one study and that the study didn't substantiate the sort of "62% effectiveness" of flu shots. Rather, it was one study conducted by one group of doctors (of which Dr. Frieden was NOT a part) reviewing early statistical evidence ONE particular shot. While the article says that Dr. Frieden said this, the journalist doesn't quote him (or even include this claim within quotes either). Again, this was part of the point that I was making.

Quote:

If anything The CDC is going to round the effetiveness of the flu shot up not down,



Again, I think that you misunderstand the purpose of a study like this itself or the purpose of the CDC. The CDC isn't paid to "cheerlead" flu shots. They aren't a marketing agency. They conduct studies not hoping for an outcome. This article simply cited a single statistical study about the effectiveness of this particular shot. The article also points out the conclusion from this analysis regarding which strains this particular flu vaccine is most effective against at an early point in the flu season.

Quote:

many years ago I researched Monsanto chemical company what I found is that there is a revolving door Monsanto and The FDA. The same reality is the case between the CDC and the Large pharmaceutical Corporations, the influenza vaccination is a multi billion dollar business. multi billion dollar business do wounders with marketing



I do not feel that you have any authority or credibility in making such a claim. In fact, it reeks of pure conspiracy. It almost seems that you are almost making a claim that the CDC and FDA are in the "pocket" of pharmaceutical companies. There is nothing that you have cited that could substantiate such a claim! After working for a large biotech company, I can attest that federal oversight does NOT look favorably for the industry. Any apparent "tie" is the fact that they are forced to work with these companies in scrutinizing and analyzing claims or insuring adequate creation and distribution for medicines and vaccinations that could prevent the spread of influenza.

Quote:

I have never heard of anyone coming down with the Guillain-Barre' syndrome from a pack of fish sticks but the swine influenza vaccine in 1976-1977 caused more harm than what the flue did in those years the CDC still admittes that current flu shots may still cause some cases of Guillain-Barre' syndrome.



Again, I fear that you are connecting dots incorrectly here. First of all, I didn't say that "fish sticks spread Guillain-Barre syndrome." I am simply saying that the old preservatives that were included in vaccines contained elements that have higher concentration in fish than in vaccines. As for any 1976 outbreak, technology has advanced in how active ingredients are preserved in vaccines. Since flu vaccines have come such a long way in the last 35 years, I suspect that the point is moot.

Quote:

Do you think maybe hot water, soap and better nutrition may have any thing to do with it?? It is doubtful that the flue pandemic has been as off set as you say by flu shots when we take in the reality that those whom get a flu shot have never been the majority.



The point is not to "think" anything -- especially enough to make a public proclamation about it. It is much better to research credible evidence and then make a determination. To be clear: The Spanish Flu wasn't killed by "soap and water" or "better nutrition." While effective soaps can prevent the spread of the flu (although the flu is still largely contracted via airborne means), "nutrition" doesn't prevent the contraction. Many of the millions that died were not malnourished. Approximately one third of the Earth's population (500 Million) contracted the flu in 1918 with up to 10% of the cases dying -- and most of the dead were young adults.

As for flu pandemics: The 1918 flu pandemic wasn't the only mass outbreak. There were many other flu outbreaks that hit large numbers of people. For instance, there was a major Russian flu pandemic in 1889-1890. However, the availability of flu vaccinations has prevented these types of outbreaks. In the event of potentially deadly outbreaks, the advent of certain vaccines has helped localize or diminish the further spread of that particular strain of flu.

I suppose that what I am saying is that we should be careful about spreading theories or rumors about such things unless we have performed a great deal of research. This doesn't mean reviewing mere articles of journalism, but looking into medical journals, looking at medical/scientific evidence and understanding how vaccines work. This is especially important when we consider the importance of avoiding public claims that might be filled with suggestions of conspiracy between pharmaceuticals and oversight agencies like the CDC or FDA.


_________________
Christopher

 2013/1/12 20:47Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi ccchhhrrriiisss

It really does not matter to me how safe the CDC says that vaccines are, as I pointed out in my last post There is a revolving door between big pharmaceutical and the CDC.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote ///Again, I think that it is important to truly perform research before warning individuals about some of the ingredients in vaccines. There are many myths and even conspiracy theories that are spread about such things. We want to be careful not to spread things that aren't true or those things that pollute the accuracy of the issues themselves.///

My warning included no conspiracy theory no inaccuracy no myth. I simply labled some of the ingredients and facts concerning those ingredients. Listen if people want to drink the kool-Aid that is fine with me, I am just giving facts of why I personaly am not going to drink the Kool-Aid

Listen just because we do not come to the same conclusion has nothing to do with lack of research, perhaps You are more researched on this subject than I am, I do not know but what I do know is that their are people more researched than both of us on the topic that hold both positiones on this topic.

Listin they told those vetnam soliders do not worry this herbacide that we are pouring all over you is harmless it might cause some skin irritation some small side effects but that is all. and than after they got home with all there problems it took them years of fighting before the truth of how harmful agent orange was would be admitted.

 2013/1/12 20:56Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


  the revolving door between U.S. government agencies, the U.S. Congress, and the pharmaceutical

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote ///I do not feel that you have any authority or credibility in making such a claim. In fact, it reeks of pure conspiracy. It almost seems that you are almost making a claim that the CDC and FDA are in the "pocket" of pharmaceutical companies. There is nothing that you have cited that could substantiate such a claim! After working for a large biotech company, I can attest that federal oversight does NOT look favorably for the industry. Any apparent "tie" is the fact that they are forced to work with these companies in scrutinizing and analyzing claims or insuring adequate creation and distribution for medicines and vaccinations that could prevent the spread of influenza. ///

the revolving door between U.S. government agencies, the U.S. Congress, and the pharmaceutical industry

http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/politics/revolvingdoor.html

 2013/1/12 21:06Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3316
Texas

 Re: the revolving door between U.S. government agencies, the U.S. Congress, and the

This could go on and on till Jesus comes back, but the chances of changing someones mind about the flu shoot, is probably the same as winning the mega millions lotto. Both sides have a fair argument, but as Americans lose more and more trust in their Government, I am sure more and more folks are going to be skeptical about "ANYTHING" the Governments recommends. This is just the beginning hide and watch! :)


_________________
Bill

 2013/1/12 21:11Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


  Dr. Julie Gerberding Named President of Merck Vaccines

Director of CDC from 2002 to 2009 Dr. Julie Gerberding Named President of Merck Vaccines effective January 25, 2010.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aHlUoQXknNMU

 2013/1/12 21:19Profile





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