| Goshen Nurses Lose Jobs After Refusing Flu Vaccination|
GOSHEN Sue Schrock has strong religious beliefs about what she puts into her body to keep herself healthy.
My family and I take natural products for our well-being and health. Its our way of life and God expects us to use products in a natural form, Schrock said. Its the way we believe every day.
| 2013/1/9 18:07||Profile|
| Re: Goshen Nurses Lose Jobs After Refusing Flu Vaccination|
Its simple right! Just require the nurses to sign an agreement which allows the local authority to throw them into jail for five years if they themselves are become an infectious source and a patient dies because in their weakened state they cannot fight the flue virus. Its religion gone mad. Its a hospital right. They are not teachers or fire men or police officers. What a load of nonsense. Rights and religion gone mad!
| 2013/1/10 0:26|
/quote/Rights and religion gone mad!/end quote/
todays miracle drug is tomorrows nightmare.
What is going on is a spirtual and a culture war
| 2013/1/10 0:32||Profile|
| Re: |
Christians speak loudly against abortion and then they inject there children with vaccinationes that are created by the use of Human Fetal Diploid Cells derived from aborted fetus. WI-38, MRC-5
I realize that the flu shot is not created by this method but what a shame it is when Christians are the ones most hostile to religious freedom but I suppose that it has always been that way and always will be. The net is closing in on us, soon an injected chip will be mandated on all to buy or sell, the majority of christendom will be the first in line and the ones most loudly condeming all who refuse.
| 2013/1/10 0:56||Profile|
| Re: amrkelly|
todays miracle drug is tomorrows nightmare.
What is going on is a spirtual and a culture war proudpapa
Sometimes brother we have to simply apply a little common sense to our lives. Then after that a little more common sense. Then after that a little less religion and so on. Those who work on the land have to do the same. Do you follow the recommendations of a man who has successfully mastered a technique for preserving his crops or do you eat. There is a cultural issue you are right. In this instance it is the culture of rights. There is a spiritual issue as well. It has nothing to do with a vaccine or the body which is already dead in sin and is perishing as we speak it has to do with death outright. Which is exactly what happens to millions of people every year who's immune systems are weak or else dying and they get this virus. No doubt this nurse has the faith to share with those thousands of children who died of the flue last year in the USA that they all went to heaven. Or perhaps if we ourselves are really religious we might find the faith to encourage all those middle aged parents who lost their children's grandparents of flue that because they are old and "nice" they too went straight to heaven. Or perhaps we should just take the view that all death is just in the hands of God and so it is of no consequence at all. Where does common sense come in and so called religious freedom go out. If you read the article the phrase is really quiet clear.
My family and I take natural products for our well-being and health. Its our way of life and God expects us to use products in a natural form, Schrock said. Its the way we believe every day. Did you get that brother a direct quote. "its the way we believe every day". Since when did that which goes into the body have anything to do with "believing". Does God really expect His children to use products in their natural form? Where are we instructed in this?
You don't have to have a religious mindset to comprehend or have a concern about the use of synthetic drugs. Yet whilst the H1N1 flue jab is a synthetic it does not pose a risk to the recipient getting flue as a result of having the virus as the old cultured virus did. The only risk it poses is a mild allergic reaction to the preservative in the vaccination. The article talks about seven nurses in particular declining to submit the necessary paper work by the due date although eight nurses are referred to one nurse is said to have retracted. No one was lined up against their will and forcibly injected with a wonder drug. Nor were any aborted babies used in the manufacture of the flue jab.
Some of us have to live with the reality of medical ethics all the days of our lives it is no mere religious liberty. My son Daniel is brain damaged simply because a doctor drew a line in the sand in order to write a medical book on the treatment of hypo-glycemia. In His mercy the Lord gave us Daniel's name 1 week after he was conceived with such certainty that we knew him before he was born. This was God' mercy to us. But it did not prevent the doctor doing his thing. Do I blame God? Certainly not! Perhaps I should focus on the Doctor. If I did brother I would be consumed with anger and then I would destroy him.! Or do I just accept that as long as we live in this body of sin we will have tribulation and contention in this life. Religious liberty is a myth made in the USA.
| 2013/1/10 1:48|
I find a culture which includes myself that as Asa trust their health issues to the Physicians. I have seen miraculous healings but often find that it is just easer to take medication than to push into faith to the depth that it takes for miraculous healing to occur. this I say of my shame
amrkelly wrote /quote/It has nothing to do with a vaccine or the body which is already dead in sin and is perishing as we speak it has to do with death outright./quote/
and later /quote/ Since when did that which goes into the body have anything to do with "believing /quote/
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy (((merchants))) were the great men of the earth; for by thy (sorceries) were all nations deceived.
(sorceries) The greek word Pharmakeia from which we get our english word for pharmacy
There is a direct connection with our body to our soul and spirit this is obvious if I where to put alchol into my body it effects more than just my body, If I where to put LSD into my body it would effect more than just my body, it would definately effect the spirit and soul.
the merchants the global corporationes in these last days will decieve the nations by their Pharmakeia
amrkelly wrote /quote/ Where does common sense come in and so called religious freedom go out /quote/
common sense is what the bible calls sight it is that which naturaly leads us but we are called to walk by faith, often times it just seems easer to have faith in our common sense
From the artical we relieze that Sue Schrock and Joyce Gingerich, have been employees at IU Goshen Hospital for 40 years and 25 years. they where not mandated to take the shot before this time.
Ethel Hoover who would have been at the hospital for 22 years said that 'she had received a flu shot 21 years ago I took it one time and I got sick. I never took it again and developed a strong personal conviction against it,
Listen this is not an isolated incident, my own Mother whom is very educated and very pro mainstream medical and pro mainstream everything else took the flue shot several years ago, I warned her that she would probably get sick from it and she did. Call it allergic reaction or what ever you want, it was the worse flu that she had ever remember having had. I have talked with several, several people that have had the same experience. and after perfect healthy individuals experience that, they tend to develope a strong personal conviction against it,
speaking of the H1N1 the 1976 swine flu vaccine did more harm by causing some to have the Guillain-Barré syndrome than what harm came from the swine flue its self.
even according to the CDC modern seasonal influenza vaccine may still be the cause of some Guillain-Barré syndrome cases
It is just different perspective amrkelly and difficult
for all of us as we look through a glass darkly but I thought I would offer some of my perspective, I can understand what you are saying and your position
| 2013/1/10 3:52||Profile|
| Re: |
What is really enlightening is to read the comments made by readers to this incident. (It may be on another website, like Yahoo where I first saw this news article.) One poster made this comment: if a person with the flu is admitted to the hospital right then and there is a source of contagion. This sick person will meet encounter many others in the course of his/her stay and potentially spread the virus. To target these nurses is unfair on different levels.
(Ethel Hoover, a veteran nurse of many years wore black on her last day of work as a symbol of mourning for what had transpired. This pic could be seen on Yahoo.)
Yes, I see how it will become harder and harder for medical professionals to work in their field and still uphold Biblical principles. Might have to work privately and eventually, secretly...[EDIT] OR become totally dependent upon the LORD for healing - something to think about.
| 2013/1/10 7:53||Profile|
| Re: |
If we simply equate sorceries to pharmaceuticals we will have missed the most pressing reality of the meaning of that word which is used most clearly in context in Galatians 5:20. Sorcery is a fruit of the flesh. And as you point out it is the link between the physical body and the soul which makes for the reality. Yet the physical reality has to do with the very thing which God Himself created; being a chemical factory of more complexity than any pharmacist is capable of understanding even to this very hour. The relationship between body chemistry and the cognisant soul is at the very heart of what sorcery means apart from anything we ingest to enhance that effect. As a matter of reality those who practise sorcery do not need to take drugs to do it and are capable of remaining healthy and well in the process. The spirit however does not have a part in what is called sorcery. For those who are sorcerers and unbelievers their spirits are dead, not only to God but to the man as well. The spirit is inaccessible and untouchable in this way. For those who are made alive to God then there is the likelihood that they will also know something of their spirits as well. It is when believers walk in their natural minds that they are still likely to practise a form of sorcery because they simply do not understand the reality of it.
The nurses in this article no doubt have their own personal reasons as to why they do not want to be vaccinated. But what has that to do with physical reality which extends beyond any understanding of the complexity of vaccines and the certain knowledge that the flu kills people who are vulnerable to it. More people died in the 18 months after the first world war of flu than died in the whole of the war itself by a great measure. Flu is biological war surpassing war itself. It is absolutely lethal for children and old people alike. These are nurses working in a hospital environment. One of these nurses worked in Oncology. Every single on of her patients in Oncology, is vulnerable to flu. All that is being asked of her is to take a flu jab in order to protect her patients from the possibility of her infecting them with the virus. Each of these nurses have taken their living from the hospital and have by their own admission benefitted greatly in life from it. They have had there children, come and gone from their employment to do so, and have in every way been well served and cared for themselves. As the article states.
Beyond this they were also given no less than three opportunities to make a case for exception on the grounds of religious conviction. Is there anything sinister in this? Perhaps there is if you accept the inevitability of the conflict which lies ahead. As I see it what lies ahead cannot be avoided and moreover the process by which to resist believers in the future is being learned now by these means. Daniel sought exemption from eating the kings food. He laid himself on the line and boasted that he would prosper more by a simple diet than by the complexity of eating the kings diet. He was given his chance and in it God sustained him and prospered him Do we believe in God sovereignty or not. So as I said if these nurses had been offered a contract of consequence in which they were required to accept five years in prison for every patient who died from flue and who came into contact with them, would that have been sufficient proof of faith or not? I rather think they would have seen it as absurd. It is equally absurd to claim that because the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit we cannot therefore take reasonable precautions to protect others whose care we have a responsibility for. When it came to idolatry Daniel made no such request for exception but went straight to his chamber to prepare for the inevitable. That is what we should doing. Preparing and not objecting.
One thing which is easily missed in all of this has to do with liberties which are exercised by the "patients" when they sue hospitals because they have been harmed by a member of staff. Just this morning I took my son to hospital and as always I am aware that hospitals are the most disease ridden places in Daniel's life. That is however unavoidable if he is to get his new boots to help him walk. So what can I do? It would be surprising in the extreme if a patient were ill and then were asked not to attend the hospital because they are ill. Somewhat self defeating I think. On the other hand nurses do have the power to make sensible decisions about the likely hood of them giving a vulnerable patient the flu. Not only this but has anyone seen the bill for sick days of hospital staff recently. Its your tax dollars. How is the hospital going to ensure the health of their staff if by nature their patients are full of disease. Daniel agreed that in the end if his claim did not prove to be true and full he would eat the kings food. He made no such promise with regard to idolatry. Well the king (hospital) wouldn't listen. What then? Where does idolatry lie? Is it in claiming our bodies are made perfect and so don't need medicating, or is it claiming our rights.
| 2013/1/10 8:14|
| Re: amrkelly|
We must all admit that vaccinations have done a lot to prevent disease. Consider the small pox shot, the polio...
However, a lot of these vaccinations today given for flu are not all inclusive in their effectiveness. How can you explain it that I have not had one in many years and still do not get the flu even though I am exposed to it a lot? We had sixteen people here on Dec.29. Of all these only two never got sick and one was me.
As I study this incident at Goshen Hospital we read how the nurses involved gave this issue serious thought - it was not a sudden decision. (A friend of Ethel Hoover said there were 50 personal that objected to it but all caved in to pressure except for these few.) Nurses usually are quite dogmatic about what they believe and why, something that usually escapes the non-medical professional. They see a lot, observe and have no financial interest in the pharmaceutical industry.
| 2013/1/12 12:55||Profile|
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I have been taking a quality brand of vitamin D3 "that comes in a glass bottle" 5,000 iu a day, along with a simple multivitamin, everyday for 10 years and never had a cold, go figure!
| 2013/1/12 13:15||Profile|