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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Superficial friendships

Today in our sister's SS class we talked about excommunicating erring, unrepentant members, based on 1Cor.5.

In the discussion it was brought up how too many times this disciplinary action is not taken soon enough. Once it is done, these people throw caution to the winds and go live a wild sinful life, rarely ever coming back in sorrow and repentance.

Then the discussion went to the friendships in the brotherhood, the lack of transparency among us. In short, too many friendships are superficial. There is little closeness that the erring person would ever miss.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Superficial friendships lack depth, honesty, hearts are not touched nor ministered to. People are held at arm's length.

Anybody else have any thoughts? Insights?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/1/6 23:19Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Superficial friendships

We need the humility to bring ourselves down to the Level of the unrepentant member before applying 1 Cor 5. Self righteous indignation will never help someone in the snare of the Devil, If whomever is going to the member to apply reproving is not willing to pour their own heart out and to reveal to that person their own past humiliating sins and any unconfessed hidden sins of the preasent than they are not in the right heart to reprove that member. as it is written first cast the beam out of your own eye so as to see clearly to help remove the smote in your brothers eye. If you are willing to open up and get real you are more likely to break through to them.

1 Cor ch 5 should hurt those whom are applying it as much or more so than the recepiant, I know for us we are having to apply it to a family member and have had to for 2 years now. it tears us up almost every day.

 2013/1/6 23:43Profile









 Re: Superficial friendships

very keen observation, ginnyrose.

That's why I church hopped for so long. I went to probably 30 churches in my lifetime and realized they are all the same.

When it comes down to it, my relationships with so-called believers were no deeper than my relationships with non-believers. No one is willing to be transparent and everyone is trying their best to look christian for the most part.
People will keep you at a distance and too much politics influences behavior. I'm not sure what Jesus was talking about when he said "we should love each other as ourselves" and "laying down our life for one another" I have never seen anything close to behavior of that sort. Right now, I hate dealing with christians at church because 99% of them are the prosperity believing fake christians. I rather hang out with drug dealers and criminals. There is more honor among thieves than these fake christians.


I realized that "church" wasn't really about God, it's a social club and Jesus is the password.

That's why I'm having these doubts about God cause I'm trying so hard to believe in God and I never meet christians, especially at church.

 2013/1/7 1:48









 Re: Superficial friendships

There can be no doubt that pride is at the root of most problems in life for both believers and unbelievers. Yet pride is just one sin amongst many sins. The greatest sin or the most deadly sin may be unbelief. Not the absolute kind of unbelief as in atheism but simply not trusting God. It seems likely that all of us have experienced hypocrisy at the hands of our brethren and whilst this is a sad experience it ought not to surprise us.Different members have different responsibilities outwardly at least and it isn't possible for every member to take on another brother or sister, even with a good attitude if those who have authority are not willing to take them on. And I don't mean judgementally. Apart from that it would be hypocritical to go to our brother or sister and to have some sin in our lives which we are unwilling to deal with. If we didn't love the sin at some level we wouldn't sin would we? We would be less than honest if we didn't recognise this truth. At the same time there are moments when sin in our lives really grieves us. At those times it is easy to acknowledge these things to the Lord, yet because of the willingness and legalistic hypocrisy of many in authority we are almost never willing to share these things openly. If all of this makes for superficiality then it is unsurprising to me. In the end as far as church life is concerned I hold the leadership responsible before God in prayer and let them know it plainly. If these brethren who so easily take their living from the flock cannot comprehend that they are to be the servants of all, then they have become the root of the problem of superficiality amongst the brethren.

I have been dealt with so harshly in the past that it has caused me to stumble and even though I have literally pleaded with some brethren to deal with me differently they have not even understood the simple reality of how they have effected me. Through time these situations can be resolved, but they will only ever be forgotten when they are truly forgiven. In this sense the Lord Himself becomes more important than the offence. Yet in the end the one who causes the offence may be completely unaware of it even if it is stated plainly. They may be led by a different requirement to preserve the flock outwardly at least and to press on trusting the Lord in it. It would be a brave man who could assert that it is ok to scatter the flock just to establish his own offence.

 2013/1/7 2:28









 True Fellowship

Art Katz speaks extensively on this in his life. He wrote a book called: True Fellowship: Church as Community (Burning Bush Press) I have it downloaded on my Kindle.

In many of his audios on this site he shares intensely about this subject and lived it out in his life. May God bless the memory of this dear prophetic man who did not live to see his impact on this generation.

In Christ,
Sister Leslie

 2013/1/7 10:02
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"If we didn't love the sin at some level we wouldn't sin would we? We would be less than honest if we didn't recognise this truth. At the same time there are moments when sin in our lives really grieves us. At those times it is easy to acknowledge these things to the Lord, yet because of the willingness and legalistic hypocrisy of many in authority we are almost never willing to share these things openly."
______________________________________________________________

I think you are right. When I think of confronting, I am always reminded of my own weakness, imperfections and wonder why should I be the one to approach OR I do know that I will be met with strong resistance and I hate strife...so one backs off but stews in the spirit. The conflict is never resolved but only builds walls and barriers. Then I am reminded of Jesus' words in Matthew when he tells us that we need to act immediately when we become aware of an offense. Instead, we think we need to pray about it a while before doing so...and it never gets done.


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Sandra Miller

 2013/1/7 11:15Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"I rather hang out with drug dealers and criminals. There is more honor among thieves than these fake christians."

Codek, I understand your sentiments....I have experienced the same - they are brutally honest or at least sometimes when it is to their advantage. BUT I would urge you to be very careful in your associations with these people - they can and will drag you down. Not only that, you could get killed. Seriously. Our DIL has a brother that was at the right place at the wrong time. He took a shot that was meant for someone else.

Am sorry you never had a good encounter with a body of Believers. But I still am of a mind the LORD will bring some your way if you are open to it. God bless.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/1/7 11:20Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: Superficial friendships

Applying 1 Cor 5 is not the work of every member of the Church, it is the work of elders who have spiritual authority over the Church. The problem with modern day church in US is they are so much greedy for Numbers and they keep increasing the numbers beyond what a pastor can handle. How can one or even a small group of pastor raise up disciple by controlling a church of 1000+ attendees?

An elder is like a Sheppard who is willing to offer his life to protect his flock from wolf. He is one who is willing to die for the sins of his brothers. To such a person God gives authority to speak about Sin in Church and also rebuke those who are unwilling to repent. The problem with 99% of American Churches is there is no one with such a testimony who can rebuke sin in the Church, why? Because the so called pastors are themselves living in Sin like adultery. How will they be able to apply 1 Corinthian 5 to its members.


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Sreeram

 2013/1/7 11:33Profile
hoohoou
Member



Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Codek,

I've gone through similar issues lately. A few months ago I went and hung out at a bar with an old friend of mine. It was where he was going to be that night and if I wanted to talk that's where I had to go. He was drunk shortly thereafter and even smoked a bowl of weed while we were sitting outside talking. All that being said we had one of the better and more honest conversations I'd had in a long time. It is sometimes easier to talk to people like that because they have few expectations of you and your doctrine. There is no worry that if you open up they will key in on one little doctrinal error while your silently screaming for fellowship. People like my friend don't have the cultural taboos that we have in the Church.

"That's why I'm having these doubts about God cause I'm trying so hard to believe in God and I never meet christians, especially at church."

Again, I've recently been right there with you. We need to be careful that we don't see ourselves as the only ones feeling the way we do. There is no telling how many people in the Church are crying for the level of honesty and vulnerability that you are speaking of. I think we need to be careful with this as our continued presence in churches that maybe aren't where we'd like them to be on this could be the straw that breaks the devil's back. If we all pull out then how will change ever come about? I hope this doesn't sound condemning because I meant it to be encouraging. What you're asking people to be is something that they can't do in and of themselves. It's against our very nature. Please don't look anywhere else than to God and your experience with Him to find validation and assurance. You are surely to be led astray. It's not about them, it's about you. And it's not about you, but about Him.

His Word is true. Look to Him and TRUST Him even when everything seems wrong. That's sometimes when it's the most right. It's in our weakness and insecurity that God is made strong. Trust Him, because I guarantee that He is behind the scenes orchestrating things that will take your breath away. God knows. We don't. He knows what's around the next bend and we can't even fathom. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

A brother in Christ, which should be no less real,
Matt


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Matt Smith

 2013/1/7 14:02Profile
SkepticGuy
Member



Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

i attend a decent church, nice people, solid preaching from what what little i claim know of the bible. but i would not say that the people there are close to me. there is a lot of talk about being a “family” but generally speaking no1 in the church knows what is going on in my life. its not that im not open or transparent, its that no1 ever asks or shows any interest. lots of Sunday morning smiles and handshakes, but after church is over everything disconnects and every1 heads out to live their lives. i long for close christian friends, but i think i am the only 1 who duz. perhaps that is the appeal of a sermonindex type forum. superficiality is a real problem in churches i think. they will know we are christians by our love. really? where? not talking about being nice to each other. im talking about where is the deep abiding luv and concern 4 each other. it duznt exist. iv never seen it.

what is even funnier is if i bring it up to christians it always gets turned around in2 being my fault. its never the fault of the church members or anything. i luv that - (i wuz being sarcastic)

 2013/1/7 15:04Profile





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