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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
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 Re:

Quote:

Martin Luther as does the other Reformers cause me to scratch my head.
When I look at the young Martin Luther and His beginnings What He taught and how He lived it seemes as a totaly different person than the old Martin Luther. It is very disturbing to me that he did not end as he had began.



I agree with you. I am not an expert with Martin Luther teachings but read quite a few. I believe he received gift from God to stand for the truth, because without being gifted it is impossible to stand such opposition. But over the period of time as he fought heavily against Pope he went to the other extreme to prove himself right.

Like Zac Poonen says:- It is a difficult thing even for God to bless a man and keep him humble.

May be such extreme teaching was necessary to pull people from trusting on traditions and relics for their salvation.


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Sreeram

 2013/1/2 12:26Profile
jimp
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 Re:

hi, repent,striveetc. these are all works of man that are not a part of salvation... salvationcometh from the Lord. He said that we did not choose Him but that He chose us and while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. you must DIE . thats what an altar is for.He then must be the life that you have. you must learn to rest in the finished work of Jesus. that is repentance that brings you into intimacy with Jesus(to know him as adam knew eve). He said depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you.as you turn toward God you turn away from sin and begin to walk in the spirit.as len used to tell me "a lot of people think they know the word of God ; but some of those do not know the God of the word.jimp

 2013/1/2 17:25Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
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 Re: Thank you Greg for this post

I am grateful for how articles like this cause me to wrestle with the breadth and depth of the scriptures. I am provoked by articles like this to attempt to lay hold of the great truths of the faith and to express them in a manner that does not pit them against each other.

I am also grateful to be challenged to remember that what I believe and teach will affect the hearers and that I should be very soberly mindful of this responsibility. Who is equal to such a task. No wonder James said "let not many presume to be teachers."

Yes, these articles stir controversy, but they also stir me to seek all the more diligently to lay hold of the truth and to be soberly humble in my attempt to relate it to others.

thank you Greg



makrothumia


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2013/1/2 17:37Profile









 Re: Justification by Faith Only by Glenn Conjurske

Thanks for the post Greg.

"let the church of God return to the doctrine of Paul, of “repentance toward God, AND faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.” Let the heralds of salvation return to “the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God,” who preached, “Repent ye, AND believe the gospel.” With all the modern preaching of faith only, surely we might expect the modern preachers to manifest a little more of faith in the plain word of God, without accretion or alteration. For this we plead" (Conjurske).

I believe both Paul and James are saying the same thing. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

Jesus said apart from me you can do nothing and unless you abide in Him you will bear no fruit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." If you have faith then you will have the fruit of the Spirit. If you belong to the LORD Jesus Christ and not to the flesh then you will have the fruit of the Spirit. But what is the faith that works by love? Remember, the demons believe and tremble, but what is the faith that saves? What is the faith that justifies?

Jesus said, "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

What is this faith that Jesus is looking for in us? What is this faith that will please God? For what is impossible with man is possible with God.

Let me ask another question, why was Jesus speaking to the angel of the church in Laodicea saying: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me." Were they not Christians? Were they not in Christ? Further, Paul wrote: "Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him." Was not Paul a Christian and was not Christ in Him? Did not Paul know Christ? And yet Paul says that "I might win Christ", "be found in Him", "that I may know Him".

Therefore, when Christ comes we want to be found in Him, not I but Christ in me. Not our faith, but "the faith of the Son of God" because apart from Him we can do NOTHING dear saints. Not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is "the faith of Christ". "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Our faith is Christ in us the hope of glory. It is He "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."

Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and NO one can can come to the Father but through Him.

We must daily lay down our life (psuche, natural life) to gain His life (aionian-zoe, Divine life). He came that we might have this divine life and have it abundantly. Satan comes to seek, kill and destroy the life of Christ in us. Satan is turning brother against brother all in the name of doctrine and self interests. Let us stand firm and steadfast in Christ, let His Spirit bring the unity and bond of peace, and the peaceable fruit of righteousness for the glory of the Lion and the Lamb.

Let's lay down our life (psuche) for our brother. Let the love of the brethren continue and a fervent love for one another grow so others will know that we are followers of the Living Christ. For Christ is the Author and finisher of our faith and it is He who justifies, sanctifies and it is He who will make us stand blameless in His presence to the glory of the Father. AMEN.

 2013/1/2 19:31
jimp
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 Re:

hi, very well stated...jimp

 2013/1/2 20:52Profile
a-servant
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 Re:

Luther's mistake was to add a word to God's word and print his own bible, something you just don't do and get away with. Even for "good reasons" that he undoubtly had.

So because it was his 'prime doctrine' in a way he is indeed responsible for 'being misunderstood' with that wrongly added 'only' emphasis that can lead to antinomian understanding and its doctrinal spin offs. If you're basic understanding is so inclined to be misled. And it's very difficult for many antinomians to even recognize that they are one. I think it's the biggest and largely undetected delusion where grace grows to just about the size that makes most of the Bible uneccesary. And of course they never really understand why God's judgment comes at the end.

I just had to think about this sentence a bit deeper:
Luke 18:8  .......Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

What does it really mean, if not what we, the majority of believers think of as faith is not that THE faith Jesus is looking for. Think about the quantity of people on earth right now, the majority of people that expresses "christian faith". So how can this be, and be true, if not the majority of people on one side and Luke on the other, talk about completely different quality or essence of faith?

With that piece of evidence I can understand that James was and is right, and Luther was and is wrong to add his favorite word "only".

 2013/1/2 23:15Profile
brothagary
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 Re:

hi brethern i noticed that many people go to james and say see look it says here that we are justafied by works as well as faith and not just faith






but pauls says in his own words no its faith alone that justafies and it is through faith that we are declrared right with god


Romans, Chapter 4



001:

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?



002:

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.



003:

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.



004:

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.




paul says we cant be justafied by works it will cause boasting before god
paul also labours to say we are justafied by faith even before we perform acts of obedence using the good works of circumsisim as a seal of righeousness ,



009:

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.



010:

How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.



011:

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also



brothers how do reconcile paul saying what seems to be in compleat conradiction to james being justafied by aslo works

i have my interprtations of what may be the case


but as one who loves the letters of paul i beleive paul is teaching we are justafied by the way of imputed righeousness ,being accounted as righeous ,before good works accor,, meaning clearly this faith only is the vecal that god justafies ,,,,,so faith alone ,before works

and to be sure there is no boasting ,i believe that the bible says god deals to each man a mesure of faith ,,,,

this faith alone is granted and produced by gods grace which is a gift ,, there will be no boasting that i have played any part in my salvation

so i submit that luther is correct that the bible teaches we are justafied by faith alone

what are your thoughts about what paul is teaching

blessings

 2013/1/3 0:36Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
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 Re:

hi, faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. will the world be at the breast of God listening for Him to speak to them so that they might carry out that directive word from the Master or will they be caught up in dry religion with its rules and regulations. obedience to what God tells the individual to do is the faith God looks for now for it comes from intimacy between Him and His beloved children.jimp

 2013/1/3 4:31Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: brothagary

Hi brothagary

brothagary wrote ///but pauls says in his own words no its faith (((alone))) that justafies and it is through faith that we are declrared right with god ///

No as the artical says Paul never used the Word (((alone))) That was Martin Luthers Phrase, As the artical declares James said (((alone))) faith is not saving faith,

brother it is not that faith + works saves but rather Faith that Saves works.

 2013/1/3 10:15Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1772


 Re:

Quote:

I just had to think about this sentence a bit deeper:
Luke 18:8 .......Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?



This is one of those scripture from which I get so much revelation that help me to be an overcommer.

To understand what Jesus meant here we need to read from Luke 18:1, the parable of prayer. Here the poor widow first hated to be troubled by her opponents. In spiritual term the opponent is our flesh and the sinful desires that come from it ,that can make us spiritually dead (Romans 8). She did not want to be oppressed by her opponent (Sin) and wanted to be free. She did not lose heart no matter how many times her opponents overpowered her (we falling into sin), she kept coming to this unrighteous judge (repentance) because she believed that he alone has the power to free her. Same way God wants us to keep coming to him longing to be free from Sin, because he alone can free us. But if we lose heart and accept our fallen life then there is no redemption no matter which Theology we believe.

So Jesus when he comes again, he is looking for people who will keep praying to lord and be dependent on him for their deliverance from Sin and Satan. The emphasis is also on our prayer life where we do not give up for the situation but keep coming to him for deliverance, hating the life of being oppressed by sin.

This verse is same as James 1:6:-
But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


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Sreeram

 2013/1/3 10:24Profile





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