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so brothagary, if you read my account, why are you not answering my question. I'll ask again


I never knowing followed Satan. In the apostate churches I attended, I genuinely thought I was following God.

And I'm genuinely seeking him now. I don't attend churches anymore because they are all apostate now, pretty much.

 2013/1/7 21:05

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


Hi codek,


Trusting Him with my experiences is utter stupidity. And you don't think I ever trusted him before? How do you think I end up this angry? By NEVER trusting him? Of course I trusted him, why would I give up so much, try so hard and be so angry if I never trusted him. THIS IS ALL BECAUSE I TRUSTED HIM.

First of all, you weren't "trusting Him" with your actions here. The "utter stupidity" was in placing faith in the words and teaching of man, leaning on your own "understanding" and fancying yourself intelligent enough to "out think" God.

The "trust" that God is after is unconditional. It isn't "what will I get" or "how will I benefit" type of "trust." That isn't trust at all. That is theoretical "investment" as if God were a Divine Negotiator. So what is "trust?" It is believing -- having faith -- in God.

After all, those who please God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. But what does He reward us with? It isn't money, fame, comfort, health, etc... If it were, then the apostles (most of whom died as martyrs) weren't "rewarded" with such things. Rather, God rewards you with a relationship with Him.

You go to God just like you are supposed to give -- expecting nothing physical in return. He gives you access to Him. It is an awesome thing to know that we can go to Him! This faith...this trust...can give someone perfect peace when the world comes crashing down around them! It is called "perfect peace."


If I could kill God right now, I would.

These words cause me to feel compassion for you. The Pharisees felt this way. I suspect that they KNEW the written Word well enough to know that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Living God. Yet, they trusted in their ability to reason...and dismissed the God who stood before Him. They wanted Him dead and did what they could to do that.

I urge you to not rely on your own mind, understanding or sense of logic when it comes to God. It is futile to do so, because His ways are NOT our ways. Instead, trust Him regardless of the outcome. Life is so short that our current Hell or private paradise that we may live in is nothing and short by comparison.

I consider all of the years of my education, my intelligence, my sense of logic and my capacity to think as nothing more than dung compared to knowing Him. If necessary, I would give it all up to Him...again.

I am praying for you, Codek. He is faithful. Life may feel like a mountain has collapsed upon you. However, that is nothing to the void of an eternity without Him.


 2013/1/7 21:12Profile


Chris, you are missing the point.

I'm not asking for prosperity. I had that on my own. I wanted to find Him. And he doesn't even answer my prayers. He never tells me anything. The worst part is that he is silent in all of this. I've said this MANY MANY times before. If you read my posts, ALL of you would understand this.

He doesn't guide me at all. He doesn't do anything. I'm on my own. I read the bible and listen to sermons 7 times a week at least. I ask him for guidance on what I need to do. And do you know what kind of answer I get back? NOTHING
Not even a "NO". Just nothing, like I'm talking to superman and asking superman for help.

And I gave it all up willingly, I chose to give it up to follow him. I'm looking for A RELATIONSHIP with God,(how do you not understand this?)I'm a pretty capable guy. If I wanted prosperity, I would just get it on my own! But obviously, that's not what I want.

And about faith, what you are describing is BLIND FAITH. No one is stupid enough to have BLIND FAITH because that would mean, we would be stupid enough to think Batman or Superman would save the day.

Your faith in God, if it's genuine, was not just derived out of thin air. If it was, you would be an idiot and I don't think you are. There are reasons why you trust God and it has to do with your relationship with God. Relationships are made through experiences. If I can't trust him with the small things, HOW AM I GOING TO TRUST HIM WITH MY AFTERLIFE. For all we know, he could send all of us to hell.

If I was your dad and all I did was lie to you, trick you and never deliver on my promises since you were a little kid, and NEVER TALKED TO YOU, HOW WOULD YOU TRUST HIM?

If you went through that, YOU WOULD NOT TRUST HIM EITHER, CHRIS. that wasn't my fault.

And I tried to trust Him. I did trust Him but after the DECADES of no answers and no guidance, no responses, what am I suppose to do?

Btw, your post could be interpreted as xian gobbledygook. Very eloquently put but you can say that about Budda, Allah, Batman or Superman. None of that, you can prove. You need to relate it with experiences or testimonies of how you can rely on God. Otherwise, it's just christianese.

About Hebrews 11:6, yeah but isn't it his "kindness that leads us to repentance"

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away,they have together become worthless;"
there is no one who does good,not even one.”

The faith that is required to please God doesn't come from thin air. It's a process. He seeks us first and none of us ever sought him first. I can't just have faith. That is a copout answer and you know this.

Give me experiences where God you built your faith? Surely if there is a relationship here, between you and God, it isn't devoid of experiences.

"These words cause me to feel compassion for you" - Chris

If you really feel compassion for me, do you also feel compassion for all the people that will supposedly end up in hell everyday. Most of the time, when I'm at the mall, or a large store, I walk around and look at them and realize that MOST OF THESE PEOPLE WILL END UP IN HELL. Some are searching for God but God makes it nearly impossible to find him. If you have compassion for people who are not saved, what have you done tangibly to alleviate this issue? I have gone out street witnessing, trying to heal the sick, talking about jesus every chance I get to the point of exhaustion.

Do you like Paul "wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people"? Do you love like that? If so, give me some real life examples. I find that even on sermonindex, I find many that is so excellent with their theology but their actions don't back up what they say.

 2013/1/7 21:14

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1866


codek when you say you would kill god if you could ,and then say your seeking god genuinly ,,,,this is a huge contradiction,, those who hate god to the point of wanting him dead ,are not seeking god friend ,,dont decieve your self in to thinking you are ,,

god is sourven so he alows all things to happen

but the bible says he works all things for good to those that love him and are called according to his pourpus

friend youve never loved god and you certainly dont love him now

 2013/1/7 21:28Profile

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1866


codek you must rember before a true conversion takes place ,we are under the power of the evil one ,,the prince and power of the air the spirit that works in the children of disbodence says the bible

he has been deciving and tricking all of us at one point

the bible says he who is born of god keeps him self
and the evil one does not touch him

friend all the evedence in your words and previous posts ,point to a fact that you are not born of god ,,,,,but dont loses heart at that fact

if you will stop blaming god ,and blame your self

there is hope

 2013/1/7 21:33Profile



LOL, please just butt out of this thread.

This is not a Brothergary vs Codek thread. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my responses, that why you said "friend youve never loved god and you certainly dont love him now" which is not an attempt at replying to the thread but just a dig on me.

Obviously, you have not read my prior threads, been there and done that to all your suggestions. DIDN'T WORK.

Until you can add meat to this thread, I have no choice but to ignore your responses.

Thank you for trying to help me out.

 2013/1/7 21:35

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1866


that fine ,but your words were you want to kill god

my feelings have never been hurt by you friend dont fell that way

if you dont reliese that you hate god by looking at your own words you posted here ,theres no chance you will repent ,,,,,you can ignore these words , im fine with that ,,the gosple of repentenece wont tikel you ears ,,

it will hurt us , but it will then bring forth fruit


 2013/1/7 21:40Profile


How can you guys be so obtuse? Have NONE of you guys ever brought anyone to the Lord? Does spewing a bunch of theology and bible verses ever work? Even with my posts, I always bring in experiences. If I just spew some verses, would any one of view be dense enough to believe me?

You can say all the christian cliches and dress up all the christianese you want but you need to back it up with experiences.

Ginnyrose shared an experience and Jeremy Lin does it below. He doesn't just repeat Romans 8:28 until he is blue in the face. He gives real life examples. I'm not saying everyone has to have a Jeremy Lin miracle happen in his life. I'm saying you need to back up your verses with some tesimonies.

If it was so easy to follow Christ, why are so many struggling with it, today?

brothergary, what is your testimony, not only when and how you got saved? but how do you continually believe in God when the whole world is stacked against you even your own flesh?

I'm sorry if I'm being rude and demanding. This is only a reflection of how God treats me EVERYDAY of my life. No grace has been shown me.

 2013/1/7 22:31

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


Hi codek,

What are you praying for? At this point, your prayer should ONLY be to know Him. Period.

I met the Lord when I was standing alone in a field one night at a summer camp. I was a popular, honor roll high school student and had been quite agnostic leading up to that point. That night, my unbelief began to erode. The words of Matthew 11:28-30 (which I had read for the first time earlier that day) were replaying in my head. Yet, there was plenty of confusion too. I was convinced that I still didn't truly believe that God existed.

After all, I had known so many many many Christian know-it-alls (who still boasted in their ignorance) many people who claimed to know Him but of which I really doubted because of the manner in which they lived. Did I really need God anyway? What if He didn't really exist? Was I going to waste my life serving a make-believe "God" that I would never see, hear or know? What if I lived 100 years serving a myth?

My mind raced.

While standing along in that field, there was something else happening. I felt my whole being longing for the Lord. I felt a deep-seeded desire to know Him as others claimed to know Him.

Suddenly, I heard it.

"You don't know me."

I am not aware that these words were physically audible. Yet, deep in my heart, I knew that these words were from God. I did NOT know Him. In fact, I didn't even know much about Him.

At this point, I poured out my entire life to God. I cried out to God from the deepest depths of my soul KNOWING that He was real. I wanted to Know Him more than I wanted to breathe! I cried out telling Him that I would trade all that I was and all that I would ever be if I could just know Him and be His friend. There was nothing left for me to offer. I conceded the end of my life to Him. I poured out every fiber of my soul to God -- expecting nothing in return and not even understanding why He would want me.

Yet, I felt the arms of God. I knew He was there. I knew that He was real. I knew that He heard me. And, I knew that He wanted me even more than I wanted Him.

You see, codek, God is not a liar. His Word is clear in that He wants you. He wants to know you. He wants to hold you in His arms and comfort you in a way that is unimaginable. His love for you cannot be measured, defined or even explained. It transcends the universe, science, time and even our sins. He cannot love you more than He loves you now. You can only endeavor to know and please Him. Yet, it is HIS pleasure when you do this!

Codek, my life changed on that night. Now, on the surface, I was still Chris. I still earned good grades. I was still a person that people recognized in high school. However, I was now dedicating my life -- my grades, reputation, character and all other things -- to Him. I didn't want these things to come between us.

On the night that I met the Lord at that summer camp, I remember returning to our dorm. I remember laying on my bed (the top bunk) and weeping as I stared at the ceiling. How could I -- a sinful young man -- know and have the attention of the one true Living God who created the entire Universe? I remember not caring if I lived or died. In fact, I even told the Lord that it would be good if He took me to Eternity that night -- because I didn't love the world anymore and longed so deeply to be with Him face-to-face.

Since then, I have learned many things in my walk with the Lord. I went on with my education, graduating multiple degrees from college and graduate schools with highest honors. I married a godly young woman that I met in college. Since that time, I have known what it is to hunger and to have plenty and then to hunger again. I have had jobs. I have been unemployed. I have had other jobs. I have been hurt deeply and I have hurt others.

More times than I can count, that "sinful man" that I thought died the night that I met the Lord suddenly resurrected and caused inner havoc and turmoil. I have led people to Christ. Unfortunately, I fear that my example may have led people away at times too.

While I have made plenty of mistakes, I have never had a moment where I wanted to walk away from God. My heart beats for Him. My wife is aware that I want Him more than I want to please her. I desire Him above all things.

This is not "blind faith." Why? Because I "see" the Lord when I speak with Him. I learn from Him by sitting in His presence -- knowing that He hears me even when I don't "feel" Him with my flesh or intellect.

Codek, God is here...right now. He sees you reading this very post. He knows all of your thoughts -- even every hidden thought. Nothing in you escapes His notice. There is no place in this world where you can escape His knowledge. Yet, in all of your humanity, doubt, pride and sinfulness, God still has unfathomable love for you. He longs for you. He longs to know you -- even more than you want to know Him.

So, how do you come to the point where you know Him?

It takes giving up yourself. It isn't "gobbledlygook." It isn't the rantings and ravings of a man with a low IQ. It also isn't coming from a man who is so "heavenly minded" that I float above the earth. I am still Chris. I still wrestle with myself daily...and not placing the things of this world ahead of my desire to know Him.

Let me be clear: God has not lied to you.

There could be a misunderstanding about what it is that God wants for you. However, He doesn't promise us the world and a care-free life. He simply promises you Himself if you willingly give yourself up to Him. You have to come to Him though -- willing to give up this entire world and anything and everything that you would ever be. It isn't a slot machine type of prayer. It is giving yourself and your future to Him expecting nothing but the opportunity to know Him in return.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...and the evidence of things not seen. So, it takes faith to know that God hears you (*even if you hear or feel nothing). Be assured: God is there. God hears you. God sees you. God longs to comfort you. Yet, you must be willing to surrender it all regardless of whether you ever feel anything at all or not. When I gave my life to Him, I didn't do so expecting Him to embrace me or speak to me. Yet, my cry was real. It was honest and pure and came from every ounce of my being. I urge you to do what I did -- because God does not favor either one of us over the other.

I will be praying for you, codek. I apologize if my words are confusing or seem to amount to nothing more than silly or meaningless babel. I know that I will be accountable for the things that I am writing and I want these things to mean something or trigger something in your heart. I do want you to know Him too -- as much as I have known Him (and still long to know Him more). I do hope that we can meet and know Him in Eternity too.

If you would like to chat (via telephone), just send me an email. My email address should be in my profile.

Again: I will be praying for you tonight.


 2013/1/7 22:36Profile


Chris please email me at [email protected]

Thank you

 2013/1/7 22:54

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