SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Where is the church?

Print Thread (PDF)


Joined: 2005/3/5
Posts: 2
Ft Lauderdale, FL

 Where is the church?

I have been a pastor for about 35 years. 6 years ago I had to face up with the difference between what I was preaching and the truth found in the bible. The church I was preaching was not the church found in the NT.

We have the sinner's prayer - they had repentance
We have water baptism which represented an outward expression of an inward work (theology) - they had to bring forth fruit worthy of repentance. They demonstrated a death-to-self.
We have the lord's snack - they had the Lord's Supper.
We have clergy/laity division - they were all brothers and sisters
We have one man speaking on Sunday - they had body ministry.
We name our various brands of denominationalism - They were one in the city with no divisions.
We have form and programs - they had power
We have enticing words and sermons - they had life.
W call the building the church – the people were the church in the early church
The world called them Christians - the world calls us Hypocrites.

We have all kinds of Christian rock, dove awards, pulpits and pews, Madison Avenue techniques, compromise, etc.
We support division, naming His body, competition, titles, etc… You call that Christianity? That stuff isn’t in the Bible… we are a cult.

How important is unity to Jesus?
How important is love to Jesus?
How important is us being in community and fellowshipping with one another?
How important is us having body ministry?
We have majored on things which are not in the scripture and set aside those things that demonstrate His will.

So what is important to us: Pastors, sermons, Sunday school, programs, supporting buildings, paying big salaries to pastors.

We are not concerned about truth. We do not fear God or truth. Read the seven letters to the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation. Where do we stand? Do you think we are going to heaven?

We need to wake up and deal with the truth or else……

Andrew Zoppelt

 2005/3/5 9:23Profile

Joined: 2005/3/2
Posts: 6
Newton, Ks.

 Re: Where is the church?

Again Wow
I so understand and feel the same way I almost dread going to church because it feels and is so hollow. The church I was baptised in just forced the Pastor to resign because he was not pleasing a small group of people in the church and the deacons were tired of listening to them complain.
And know one cares to challenge the Leaders of the church for the decesion they made. I would like to but I have no "standing" in the church. So I just left and found a another church. But the feeling of being in a apostate church is still there. I pray for boldness and zeal every day so I can confront the church buildings and the supposidly church body inside those walls.
I say to you brother speak loud and stand firm in the truth God will have his way.

Ricki Greer

 2005/3/5 11:26Profile

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 40

 Re: Where is the church?

When I came to the Lord in '81 and began to "go to church" again, I began to question all this stuff too. When God filled me with His Spirit, I began reading the Word day and night..couldn't put it down. I then began to compare the Biblical accounts with the "churches" I was attending. When I began to question the validity of some of the "church" practices, I was essentially "cold-shouldered" out. But the Spirit was with me and still is. I have understood very clearly what the "church" is and have understood what to do about it. God didn't call me out to partake of a "church". He called me out of this evil age to be His son. I love to gather with the sons and daughters of God and fellowship in the Spirit and the Word, but I will not again take part in the perversion generally called "church". I never could really find an agreed-upon credible source for the intrusion of the word "church" into the Letters anyway. The meaning of the word actually used in the Writings, Ekklesia, was clear and easy to understand even from secular documents. Simply - The Called-Out. An assembly called together for a specific purpose.

Mankind has been thoroughly brainwashed for centuries now by this false concept of church. And brainwashed people (including myself) despise having the veil torn away from their deception. But this is a God-sent delusion that has been here for a long time now. The church folks keep looking for the Strong Delusion to happen in the future....during "the tribulation" perhaps (another delusion.) But it's already happened...and there's somebody sitting where he ought not be... Even the very elect could miss it if it were possible.

You're right. We need to wake up. We just need to be sure of what we need to wake up to.

Steve Lindsey

 2005/3/7 13:15Profile


Andy ... you have just summarized why the house church movement exists today! Amen!


 2005/3/7 13:27


... i just checked out your website. We're on the same page, you and I.


 2005/3/7 13:30

Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


Ya know, our pastor just spoke out (in passing) against the home church movement in his sermon this past Sunday.
It was the first time his words ever seemed to be a clear contradiction of scripture to me. The pastor insinuated that the verse about our being told not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together was some sort of rebuke to house churches.

I couldn't disagree more. The assembling of ourselves together is exactly what the house churches are doing. Just cuz they're not doing it in some grand building with tax-free status from the government doesn't mean they are NOT a church. That's clearly scripture...[i]where two or more are gathered...[/i]

Don't get me (or my pastor) wrong. I love the man, love the church, and he preaches with power about love, and AGAINST all kinds of sin. But he and I don't see eye to eye on all things, as I'm sure the same would be true anywhere I went (including a home church). But that just struck me and I thought I'd toss it out there.

On another vein: As far as the "Lord's Crumb and Shot" goes (I'll be laughing and cursing you til the day I die, for that, Krispy... :-P), something else occured to me this Sunday, (as we took the Lord's Supper), and that was that the size (or content) of the "meal" is extremely [b]irrelevant[/b]. The coming together of the saints in rememberance of Jesus' sacrifice is all that matters. If I do thus with my brothers and sisters over a sip of water or a full seven-course meal, I can be just as moved to remember...or just as damned for partaking unworthily.

Just my .63 cents. :-)

 2005/3/7 16:41Profile

Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474


Thanks Andy,

You sound so much like my pastor. He's walked the same road as you, as have I.

He said that there no positions within the church only functions. And how true that is. There are a number of different folk who minister in the Word at our little church.

Welcome to SI.

Ed Pugh

 2005/3/7 16:47Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy