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David01-72
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Joined: 2012/3/23
Posts: 58
Texas

 Does Jesus know when end is?

Im not sure if this is the right thread to post in, but i just wanted to know, why does it say that niether the Son know the end of times and in the KJV it only say that the Father only knows?

Example
Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."KJV

Mat 24:36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." ESV

God Bless
David C


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David Cisneros

 2012/12/20 14:25Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re: Does Jesus know when end is?

I think the NASB version is much accurate. I use it and I have observed it to be a better translation than KJV. I personally do not believe KJV has anything special. This is just my personal view.

So answering your question, I believe Jesus when he was in this earth in the likeness of Human flesh, he did not know the hour of his second coming. It proves that a believer does not need to know that hour to live by faith as Jesus himself our forerunner did not know. We are supposed to be ready every breath of our life and follow Jesus.


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Sreeram

 2012/12/20 14:35Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: Does Jesus know when end is?

David,
In answer to your question I would say, yes Jesus does know when the end is.

The reason for these scriptures saying that only the Father knows and not even the Son, is because during Jesus' earthly ministry He lived as the Son of man, subjected to His Father and laid aside for that period His divine attributes. So in that period of His earthly life He did not know. However He is now glorified with the glory He had with the Father at the beginning and as God must know all things. It is an attribute of God (and Jesus is God) to be omniscient (all knowing).

That is my understanding.


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Dave

 2012/12/20 14:35Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re: Does Jesus know when end is?

David,

Please bear in mind that Jesus is not referring to the "end of time" here, but to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The words "last days", or "latter days", are lifted from the Old Testament, and are first presented to us by Moses. However, to him, they did not speak of the end of history, but the end of the Old Covenant, and the destruction that befalls Israel in 70 AD:

DEUT 31:29
29 For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you **in the latter days**, because you will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands."

DEUT 32:28-29 (please read the whole chapter for more insight)
28 "For they are a nation void of counsel,
Nor is there any understanding in them.
29 Oh, that they were wise, that they understood this,
That they would consider **their latter end**!

So, "latter days" refers to the last days of Israel's place in the Old Covenant, not the end of the world. This is why all of the New Testament writer speaks of themselves as living in the last days. (For more info on this, please read this article: http://jeff-turner.org/?p=325)

Now, Moses also gives us the timeline for when these "latter days" would be:

DEUT 32:43
43 "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people;
For **He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And render vengeance to His adversaries;
He will provide atonement for His land and His people**."

The Latter days are described as the days in which Gentiles find themselves included with God's people (New Covenant), when God avenges the blood of His servants, and also during the time that He makes atonement for His land and people. All of these are first century events!

The avenging of the blood of His servants only ever took place one time:

MATTHEW 23:35-36
35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

There is no denying that first century Israel was judged for shedding the blood of all of God's servants, including those who came after Christ, and Christ Himself. Jesus was clear, this judgment would come upon the then present generation.

Then, in the next chapter, Jesus describes, in apocalyptic language, the nature of His coming in judgment against Jerusalem, which ties in directly with what He had just finished predicting in chapter 23.

Then, He once more confirms it:

MATTHEW 24:34-35
34 I tell you the truth, **this generation** will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Once more, Jesus makes it clear that the judgment for the shedding of His servants blood, will come upon first century Jerusalem! This is the coming spoken of in the very next verse, the "coming" which only the Father knew the approximate date of. This is not a reference to the final appearing, resurrection and judgment of the living and the dead. This is a reference to the first century coming of the Lord in judgment against Israel. This is what Moses called the last days, and what the New Testament writers referred to as the "last days" as well.

Peace!


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Jeff

 2012/12/20 14:45Profile
David01-72
Member



Joined: 2012/3/23
Posts: 58
Texas

 Re:

so between those two versions theres no difference?


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David Cisneros

 2012/12/20 14:46Profile
David01-72
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Joined: 2012/3/23
Posts: 58
Texas

 Re:

Fireinmybones1 said "Please bear in mind that Jesus is not referring to the "end of time" here, but to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD."

I always thought it did because of this verse that is in the same chapter.

Mat 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."KJV



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David Cisneros

 2012/12/20 15:04Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Good point. Remember though, the Greek word for "nations" is oikoumenē, which is the same word used for "world" here:

LUKE 2:1
1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the **world** should be registered.

Now, we know that it was only the Roman world that was taxed, for that is what the word typically refers to - the Roman Empire.

Consider these scriptures:

COLOSSIANS 1:23
23 This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

ROMANS 10:18
18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."

MATTHEW 10:23
23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

It seems to me that the "coming" is definitely the first century judgment. The whole "world" referred to the Roman Empire, which was clearly evangelized according to Paul.

Blessings!


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Jeff

 2012/12/20 15:16Profile
David01-72
Member



Joined: 2012/3/23
Posts: 58
Texas

 Re:

Fireinmybones1 said "Good point. Remember though, the Greek word for "nations" is oikoumenē, which is the same word used for "world" here:"

For Mat 24:14 nation has a different meaning.
This is what i got according to the Strong's Hebrew and Greek dictionaries:

G1484
ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

But you are correct for Luke 2:1



God Bless


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David Cisneros

 2012/12/20 15:35Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Mat 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the *world* for a witness unto all *nations*; and then shall the end come."

There are two different Here: world and nations. 'World' is the word I was addressing. The Gospel was preached to the entire Roman world prior to 70 AD. Also, remember, Jesus said that it all had to take place in that generation.


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Jeff

 2012/12/20 17:26Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1546


 Re: Does Jesus know when end is?

Hi David,
Here is an interesting aspect I heard someone say
In the Jewish wedding when the bridegroom is at his fathers house preparing for the time when he is to go and get his bride if he is asked when are you going to the get bride?He replies - No man knows but my Father.
The Son can seemingly only go to collect his bride when the Father is happy with the preparations.
Yours Staff

 2012/12/20 17:49Profile





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