| Poster | Thread | PTywama3
Member
Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA
| | Re: | | In a reply to Neilgin1,
Pharisees were not faithful. They did not open their hearts to God, and they decided that the law was more important than intent. Was Aaron faithful when he fashioned the calf?
There is a reason Jesus called them out so many times, just as there was a reason they were drawn to test him so many times.
To say that all the pharisees were unfaithful and unbelieving is about like saying that all chickens lay white eggs, but there were in the number many who were. Many of them profited from the church to a personal extent, and I see no reason for any follower of the law to pay someone to betray their master. Just as with Jeremiah, those who persecuted Him did not "love God." Lip service is a wonderful thing, but is by no means real.
And to slam American evangelicals in such a fashion... well, that perfectly describes the state of the pharisees. God knows we don't all lay white eggs.
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David Reynolds
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|  2005/3/6 1:39 | Profile |
| | faithful | | the Pharisees were the faithful, they were the "seperated" ones...in fact their Scriptural basis for wanting to kill Jesus was Deuteronomy 13.
but they were so faithful, they couldnt see Messiah. Its the same today, I think that when the Lord comes back, most of the church would be trying to repudiate Him, and tell Him he's a phony and apostate, be against Him.
Most of the church today expends enormous amounts of heart and mind capital tearing into one another over stuff that will be viewed from a heavenly vantage point as trivial. Its just grievous.
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| | 2005/3/6 2:27 | | AgesofWar
Member
Joined: 2003/5/24
Posts: 138
Chicago IL USA
| | Re: faithful | | Sounds like you had it with all the in fighting, welcome to my world... I went down that path and let me tell you Neil it ain't pretty.
Don't get dismayed by all that you hear and see JESUS will finish the GOOD work he has started in all who LOVE him and All who will one day LOVE him but don't know it yet...
Now as for your last thread I gotta say the following ;-)
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the Pharisees were the faithful, they were the "separated" ones
The Pharisees were not faithful at all..
Jesus called them sons of Satan and white washed coffins.
I know from experience that with all the false prophets of our day that it can be confusing at best, but Please don't start calling the Pharisees the Faithful.
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but they were so faithful, they couldnt see Messiah
They were not faithful cuz if they were they would of seen the Messiah.
JESUS said that Abraham wanted to see his day so he would of Loved JESUS and Abraham was faithful.
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Most of the church today expends enormous amounts of heart and mind capital tearing into one another over stuff that will be viewed from a heavenly vantage point as trivial
That may be so, however with so many different doctrines and so many False doctrines there must be voices who call the way of Truth.
JESUS warned about false teachers in the last days, also Paul, Peter and John warn us in the Bible about these false teachers. (there are more than that who warn like Jude, James, Isaiah, and Ezekiel to name a few.
My point is that at times it gets me really frustrated that there is so much fighting among those who claim to be the Church, however I have come to understand that the church is not a person's theology it's his and her relationship with JESUS... That is the Church.
So Please try not to become offended or hurt by the War that we are in, Rest in the knowledge that You Love JESUS and leave the rest to HIM.
PS. Some peeps need to be warned or they may die in there sin, and some men and women are chosen to Warn Peeps, like Wilkerson and others.
Cuz I care Michael 8-)
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Michael
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| | 2005/3/6 3:27 | Profile | Compton
Member
Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732
| | Re: Faithful | | (Note: I edited this post to remove a little of the abrasive edge to it while still leaving the point. Sorry about that.)
I think I understand where Neilgin is coming from.
Regarding the Pharisees, from a human standpoint they were faithful. Or at least faultless.
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If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
Sometimes I wonder if we are too worried about our own righteousness to be of much good to people. Our vision of holiness is too small.
Take this hullabaloo over a teen bible for instance. Have we become holy dandies; never feeling outraged over the social injustice and suffering of others; just teen bibles and rock music?
On the other hand, maybe this has nothing to do with what Neilgin was saying and I just wasted everyones time!:-P
MC
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Mike Compton
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| | 2005/3/6 5:44 | Profile | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: Cannibals | | Quote:
You know what modern day American evangelicals are?
Cannibals.
they love to eat each other.
I witness it on this forum all the time.
Does this apply to said writer as well?
Not trying to get your goad, but some backtracking could be revealing brother.
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Mike Balog
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| | 2005/3/6 11:58 | Profile |
| | Not at all Mike | | Please accept my apology if I hurt you at all regarding that statement. What I meant was one can see the depths of the fractures in the unity of the Body of Christ. Your prayerful sensitivity in posting is always apparent. I could learn from that dear brother. |
| | 2005/3/6 12:02 | | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: Not at all Mike | | Not me brother ;-)
Personally offended, no. Still haven't been able to shake the thoughts behind T. Austin Sparks "Blessedness of the Unoffended"
A truly great discourse in my opinion (begining to hate that word)
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3196&forum=31#24727]Audio/Text Cojoining[/url]
Just something grevious... what was behind the whole rant earlier on humilty, besides the stench coming out of my own pores.
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What I meant was one can see the depths of the fractures in the unity of the Body of Christ.
That could have saved me a lot of ink right there.
Well said.
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Mike Balog
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| | 2005/3/6 12:25 | Profile | InTheLight
Member
Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
do you honestly believe, that the people that put out such translations are doing it for the money?
(let me interject, that this magazine Bible would not be a purchase I make for my boy...he has the DK Illustrated Bible, its perfect for a nine year old)
Do you honestly believe that it was done for the money? Misgiuded as it might be, these folks probably did it coz they thot they were being REVELANT to todays generation.
Neil, I'm trying to understand your argument here, are you implying that good intentions are all that is required? As long as we believe we're being relevant than everything is OK?
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I'm glad you "met" all my questions, thats good.
So you can be angry at this magazine/Bible.
Again, forgive this simple man but I'm a bit confused by your reasoning, if you're implying that meeting your questions has nothing to do with justifying righteous indignation then why did you ask them in the first place? (by the way, I don't think meeting those questions justifies me or anyone else, to be angry about anything)
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I seem to remember how angry the Pharisee's were at Jesus healing on the Sabbath, or Jesus dining and interfacing with the fouliest fonkiest sinners of his day. We have this assumption, or should I say presuppostion that the Pharisee's were just these evil horrible guys.....no, these were the "faithful" of the day, they loved God, with all their heart mind and soul, they would get angry and upset when people would blaspheme their God....just like your girl.
This is not a good analogy. The Pharisees were hypocrites, they thought they had a head problem (law) with Jesus but the way in which Jesus dealt with them proved they really had a heart problem, they did not love God with all their heart, mind, and soul.
Quote:
You know what modern day American evangelicals are?
Cannibals.
they love to eat each other.
I witness it on this forum all the time.
This seems a bit self-refuting to me, kind of like saying to someone, "you shouldn't force your morals on me" and when they ask you why you proceed to lay your own morality on them.
In Christ,
Ron
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Ron Halverson
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| | 2005/3/6 15:53 | Profile | PTywama3
Member
Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA
| | Re: | | Regarding the Pharisees:
It was never the letter of the law, but the intent that mattered. God really did put the first two commandments first for a reason, and the Mosaic law had a way to become clean again as a matter of course.
The pharisees weren't even faithful in a human standard because they put the law above the Lawgiver - doesn't that contradict the first point?
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David Reynolds
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| | 2005/3/6 16:45 | Profile | Compton
Member
Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732
| | Re: | | PTymama3,
You are of course correct. I certainly agree with you and appreciate your patience and reasoning on this point. I think what we are looking for is a way to distinguish the life of the Spirit from outward religous zeal.
In fact Neilgin may be expressing the same conclusion that you have expressed, except from another vantage point. Perhaps his question is this:
Are we putting the "gods" of our conservative churchianity ahead of God's desire to reach those kids who may not be attracted to a normal bible?
It's not an easy question for me to answer.
Blessings!
MC
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Mike Compton
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| | 2005/3/6 18:37 | Profile |
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