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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Steve Hill: The Spiritual Avalanche That Could Kill Millions

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hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

Hi bearmaster,

In response to your post where you said:

"Frankly I am just a wee bit confused. I thought the firestorm of last week was to discourage this forum from going on a witch hunt and speaking out against heresy. Now I am hearing we.need to speak out against false teaching based on the vision of Steve Hill"


The firestorm last week was not about identifying heresy as much as the former members of SI who were involved wanted everyone to think. What had to change and what they were unwilling to change was the un-Christlike attitude with which they approached the subject and then descended into personal attacks on the moderators and other members.

They were more than welcome to express their deep concern, which I and even the mods share. This forum has always and will always be against heretical teaching.


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/12/13 14:03Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

I agree, Hulsey.

The moderators weren't saying that we can't discuss particular doctrines that are unscriptural. They were saying that we shouldn't make blanket judgments assessments about individuals who may embrace doctrinal flaws, attend congregations that teach such things or who, as you pointed out, resort to attacks on others who don't agree with their particular views.

I don't think that there would be a problem in discussing the fallacies of old order or high church religious doctrines propagated by old sects and denominations. We can point out why doctrines like "adoration of saints," the "priesthood," the "sacrament, "baptism of infants," etc... are religious traditions of men and do not stand the muster of Biblical truth.

However, that wasn't exactly what happened. It seems to me that judgement was pronounced upon anyone who may not have "seen the light" regarding such things yet...and those who didn't agree were seen to be under similar suspicion of judgment.

If each of us were to make a list of EVERYTHING that we believe (in a doctrinal sense), there will be someone willing to point the finger of judgment. It wouldn't matter that we agree in all of the "essentials" of the faith and in 99% of everything else.

Oddly enough, most sects and denominations began when individuals could no longer fellowship with others because they did not see everything the same way or agree upon every issue that one person or group thought some particular issue was vital or "essential."

The Word of God is certainly "BLACK and WHITE." However, a wise man once pointed out to me that most Bibles have another color represented in the New Testament. It is written in RED. This, he supposed, represented the GRACE of God. That grace is not just the unmerited favor from God that we do not deserve, but the ability to see others with the grace that we hope that the Lord extends to us.

The Old Testament presented a "righteousness" that was achieved by adhering to a Law...which was impossible to follow to the letter. The New Testament presents a "righteousness" that is undeserved and given to us by grace through faith.

Even during the time of the Book of Acts, there were already issues in the Early Church where people were trying to make it "difficult" to be a believer. The council that met in Jerusalem came to the conclusion that we were "freed" from the burden of the Law and that they should not make it "difficult" for Gentiles who turned to God. Oddly enough, it seems that there is almost a "new Law" that is often presented in denominational Christianity. I am not speaking of the "Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" -- but a "law" that is just a bit shorter than the Law of Moses and is typically found in the list of "beliefs" and "bylaws" found on denominational websites.

Over the years, there have been believers who came to SermonIndex and felt a need to "make converts" toward their way of thinking. For me, I would rather the Lord lead and guide others. I love discussing doctrinal issues with other believers. However, I would prefer the Holy Spirit -- through prayerful study of God's Word -- lead individuals into what is "truth." We should never get bent out of shape when someone might see something differently than we do (on non-essential matters) because we are all at different stages of maturity in our lives.

There is certainly a need for TRUTH in these days. There is a need to point out "heresy." However, the grace of God provides us the opportunity to be led by the Lord to the Truth of His Word. And, of course, the fact that someone might embrace some doctrinal tradition that we believe to be false does not mean that they are "heretics." Rather, it could be that they just don't know the Truth...yet.

Like I said, if we all revealed EVERY notion that we adhere to in regard to matters like music, modesty, dress, baptism, the gifts of the spirit, eschatology, salvation (lose it or not), etc... -- there will always be some believer who will stand up and point out the apparent "flaws" that they perceive in us. It wouldn't matter how REAL our salvation and love for the Lord is. Our faith is often easily dismissed by others on the basis of not adhering to what others proclaim as "essential" with no room left for growth, maturity or the grace that God showed us as we grew in faith, prayer and knowledge of His Word.


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Christopher

 2012/12/13 18:10Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi chris,sorry for misspelling your name. i want to thank you for a wonderful post. i have changed my theology from extremes as a young man toward the middle as i approach 74. i have oft been wrong and when i saw it in my life i ran to the truth.the one thing that scares me to death is not the charlatains who are way off in different directions but the negative,harsh critical folks who limit the power of God and accuse the brethren by name with meanness and a lack of love.Jesus is able to change anyone.after finishing bible col.in florida iwas recruited by charles simpson to be a part in the discipeship proram. they sent me to miss. and after a while i saw that this was becoming a cult.i promised God a year and a year and a day, iwas headed to new orleans.i called charles everything but a christian. i ran into charles in a church in orlando fl. and told him i had ought against him .he told me that he had repented of this error many months prior and begged my forgiveness.the Lord showed me i was blasting a man who was my brother and had repented of his errors.this has grieved me till this day.jimp

 2012/12/13 19:51Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2080


 Re: Steve Hill: The Spiritual Avalanche That Could Kill Millions???



Steve Hill said,

"The Lord began to speak...The fresh, new snow represented the false teaching that is steadily falling on the ears of the body of Christ. It has been, and is, a heavy snowfall."

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not to the words of the prophets that prophesy to you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not from the mouth of the LORD." Jer. 23:16

"I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Who think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD? Is not my word like a fire? saith the LORD? and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Therefore behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbor. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD." Jer. 23:26-32

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." Heb. 1:1,2

"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night." Psalm 1:1,2

"And I fell before his feet to worship him, but he said to me, Behold! Stop! I am a fellow-slave of yours, and of your brothers, having the testimony of Jesus. Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Rev. 19:10

"THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY."

"All Scripture [is] God-breathed and [is] beneficial for teaching [or, doctrine], for verification [or, reproof], for correcting faults [or,exposure], for instruction in righteousness [or, the behavior that God requires],
so that the person of God shall be fully qualified [or, perfectly fit], having been completely equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16,17

"For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Heb. 4:12

"Be eager [or, diligent] to present yourself approved to God [as] a worker with no need to be ashamed, cutting straight [fig., teaching accurately; or, interpreting correctly] the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15

 2012/12/14 6:00Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re:

jimp, you were right in being very concerned about the direction Simpson and et al were taking... Now this is the first time I knew he abandoned it...

There have been so many of these kinds of incidents in my past that it has been very effective in instilling in me a distrust for many contemporary writers. It gets to be so wearisome to have to sift through...You read something edifying only to learn they have gone off the rails.

It has been this kind of experience that has effectively driven me to the WORD. Now that does not mislead either by teaching or example! PTL

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2012/12/14 7:39Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3593
Louisiana

 Re:

"i ran into charles in a church in orlando fl. and told him i had ought against him .he told me that he had repented of this error many months prior and begged my forgiveness.the Lord showed me i was blasting a man who was my brother and had repented of his errors.this has grieved me till this day"

If we go on to follow the Lord, He will deliver us from extremes, and from the ditches on the right hand and the left. There are many men of God that were truly called of God to preach and teach the Word that got off into some error along the way. Many of them received the correction of the Lord and repented of the false teaching that they were involved in. The "Shepherding Movement" in the 70'S was something that many fine teachers got involved in, Derek Prince being one of them. Many of these men did repent and renounce this false teaching. The "Word of faith" movement also caught up many teachers that got caught up in teaching unbiblical prosperity. One of the main leaders in the faith movement, Kenneth Hagin, renounced many of these false teachings later in his ministry, and even wrote a book bringing correction where it was needed. Those of you that have followed David Wilkerson over the years could see that he became much more merciful in his latter years, and put out many teachings on how to be set free from besetting sin.

The uncompromising truth needs to be taught with the view of restoring those that have fallen, knowing that God has kept us all of these years by His great faithfulness and mercy.

Mike


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Mike

 2012/12/14 8:12Profile









 Re: Savannah

My sister good thoughts in your post. We would do well to stay within the bounds of tbe prophetic writings themselves. That being the scriptures.

Bearnaster.

 2012/12/14 9:32
TheophilusMD
Member



Joined: 2003/12/1
Posts: 124
New Jersey

 Re:

Quote:
Those of you that have followed David Wilkerson over the years could see that he became much more merciful in his latter years, and put out many teachings on how to be set free from besetting sin.



Having sat under his ministry for more than a decade I certainly agree with you, Mike, especially if we compare his preachings before he planted Times Square Church. The Lord taught him mercy which is still very evident in the lives of leaders and members of the church. This brings us to what Chris said:

Quote:
The moderators weren't saying that we can't discuss particular doctrines that are unscriptural. They were saying that we shouldn't make blanket judgments assessments about individuals who may embrace doctrinal flaws, attend congregations that teach such things or who, as you pointed out, resort to attacks on others who don't agree with their particular views.



I think this is what some fail to grasp. The parable of the good Samaritan in Luke 10 was given by Jesus in the context of a conversation concerning salvation. He used the Samaritan, a man of mixed doctrine, as an example. Indeed it was to the Samaritan woman at the well that Jesus is first recorded to explicitly say that He was the Messiah.

Mercy. I think we all need to understand what really that is. Every day.


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Rey O.

 2012/12/14 12:50Profile





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