Vidalia, LA USA
Regarding Rons remarks.
Ron said Is our walk with Him to be based on experiences or on His Word?
Without a doubt our life is based on the Word of God, but the Word of God states that when we walk clothed in Christ Jesus we shall have these types of experiences. Unfortunately we get confused and try to live our Christian lives on our experiences, this it very disastrous. Feeling and experiences can be misleading, sometime our feelings arent correct and also the devil can counterfeit experiences, signs, and wonders. I am by no means saying that all of this is of the devil.
LWPray said that we need discernment and wisdom. Amen. Do we ever. We need discernment and wisdom to know the false movements, but we also need to know that God does move in these miracles ways as well.
With this said, the goal of our life in Christ should never be the experience of miracles, signs, wonders, ect but the reality of a God centered life.
Ron also said something about Is the Holy Spirit not adequate to provide and keep us wherever we are, in America, in Brazil, in China, in prison?
I think what Todd was talking about was about getting away from skepticism. I talk to so many people who talk about praying for this person and that person. Praying for salvation, healing, so on and so forth. But when you get down to it they really dont believe God will do anything. We find it easy to believe that God will move tomorrow but it is rather difficult to believe that He will move today. The majority of Christians who pray live their life like this and at the end wonder why God never moved.
God does move in healings, miracles, and with masses of people being saved today. I must I am a skeptic of this laughter revival and being drunk in the spirit. The number one rule to me in discernment would have to be, who gets the glory, man or God; If man, it is of the devil, if God then who am I to fight against it.
I greatly thank Todd for sharing these things as well as the others that have posted. I also say beware. It is just as easy to become a Pharisee as it is to become a Heretic.
Mark 16:17-18 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
| 2003/9/23 16:33||Profile|
Phoenix, Arizona USA
Those are good points Beau and I don't think anyone here who has read and believes Genesis 1:1 will argue against the possibility of God moving in supernatural ways. This serves to remind us that a healthy balance of the truth will include both the rational and mystical.
The danger, as you have pointed out, comes when the supernatural experiences become the goal. I have a concern that many of these healing ministries do little more than feed a lust for the supernatural in their followers. Once this lust has been conceived there is a need for one new experience after another and ultimately this will end in discouragement and as Carter Conlon says, "It will leave us naked before our enemies".
I am simply concerned that the passion be centered in Christ Himself, not the experiences. Trust in the Living Word and be clothed in the full armor of God.
I struggle greatly with threads like this because I grieve over ministries that lead believers away from the centrality of Christ and yet I am aware of my own weakness to be critical and judgmental at times. Please forgive me if I have offended anyone, I will post the following verse which keeps coming to mind when I consider this thread and then I will post no more on this issue;
Pro 17:24 [i]Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth.[/i]
| 2003/9/23 19:46||Profile|
| Re: Brazil|
Todd- why Brazil-why this certain town - what were Mr. Clarks motives for all this---did you honestly look from the outside of the box before you jumped in? Was payment for Mr.Clark supplied by who ever brought him to Brazil? I implore you to study the situation, although I myself do not doubt that God can use every situation for His Glory - but look at the WHOLE situation and circumstances... :-D
| 2003/9/23 22:57||Profile|
I would like to honestly answer your questions here but I am not clear on what you are asking. Let me try and if I don't get to what you are looking for just ask again.
"Todd- why Brazil-why this certain town - what were Mr. Clarks motives for all this--"
It seems you are asking why Randy Clark chose to go to Curitiba, Brazil for this trip and what were his motives. I clearly cannot give a good answer here since I, not being God, cannot know his true motives. I think Randy might have mentioned this verse as part of his motive for doing this travelling type of ministry in general:
"For I long to see you in order that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established; that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine."
I don't know all the details about why the team was in Curitiba at this time. I could only speculate and I don't think that would be very helpful.
"---did you honestly look from the outside of the box before you jumped in?"
Please clarify this question for me. What constitutes "the outside of the box?" I did some research on Curitiba and of course I did some on the ministry. I don't have enough money to just jump in on every trip I feel like going on.
"Was payment for Mr.Clark supplied by who ever brought him to Brazil?"
I pretty sure that the answer is no. I get the impression that the team usually goes free of charge. I think money is provided by partners in the ministry. I think I recall Randy or Tom (another preacher that was on the team) saying one night, to the church, something along of the lines of:
"I know many of you can't afford to go to Toronto or Mozambique, so we come to you for free." But I can't be sure about that.
"I implore you to study the situation"
"look at the WHOLE situation and circumstances... "
Like what? What specific details would you like to know? I might be able to find out for you. I feel I have a pretty good graspe of the situation.
| 2003/9/24 0:25||Profile|
Vidalia, LA USA
Let us be very prayerful of what we post and the attitude in which we post to any of these forums. No condemnation intended in my statement but I know that at times we can become offended and allow our emotions to motivate our posts and not the mind of God. This can also be true with allowing our emotions to motivate us with because of pride. Any time we post anything other than with the mind of God then we are only serving the devil.
As I have said before and I will post again; I believe it is just as easy to become a Pharisee, as it is to become a Heretic. Both are the same in that they are both enemies of God. The difference is one the devil has pulled to the left and the other the devil has pulled to the right. Either way they are off the course of God.
Be on guard all of you, the Devil is waiting like a prowling lion seeking that he may devour.
| 2003/9/24 10:47||Profile|