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 Having a wrong Understanding of the Gospel & thinking we have a right spirit somehow in it?

Notice Jesus did commend these particular churches in Revelation for not tolerating Jezebels, the practices of the Nicolaitins, etc.

And he warned them that they lost their first love. What is/was their first love? How "loving" they appeared to others? That may be important, but that's not what Jesus was talking about here. Their "first love" was their burning desire and love FOR CHRIST! Had they neglected the secret place of prayer and communion with Him? As Keith Daniel has said, "anyone who has backslidden, fallen into sin, or drifted into error - the root cause is that they began neglecting the quiet time alone in communional prayer with Jesus."

Jesus commended those who called out the false teachers and called them liars. That part seems to get skimmed over quickly. Jesus also told another that he held against them that they tolerated that wicked woman Jezebel who led away the sheep into sin. That seems to get skimmed over too. Never does Jesus say in any of these letters, "but when you found them to be false aposrles & called them liars (which he commended), you just weren't 'loving' enough in how you said/did it." never. This is a deceptive false "love focus" from the enemy to slide deception in the house and accept things which God hates & rejects.

The word "Apostacy" comes from the same root as the word "adultery". Does an adulterer totally leave their spouse for another lover? No, not typically. They want their cake and eat it to. They want to hang on to their spouse and let other lovers in their bed. Call them an adulterer and you may get accused of being mean and unloving. But you may also awake them to their error and save them from their sin & deceit.

This goes on long enough in the house called by God's name, & He will stamp "ICHABOD" across the doorway, meaning - "The Glory of God has departed". Seen it many times. Didn't make it that way, but have seen what a Soveriegn God will do when this is allOwed to carry on in His name. He will depart & take His Spirit with Him. What are we left with when that happens? What kind of "love" then?

Surprisingly, Wilkerson & Ravenhill (& Katz a little) preached MUCH on this subject and lived it as ones with prophetic preaching gifts. Those who called it "love" threw stones and sought to "kill the prophets" (silence them) & protect their own kingdoms. Don't think for a second anyone is above/immune to this. If what we are standing on is anything other than Christ, the solid rock, & His Word, it is all shifting sand on which your house will fall when the storm comes.

 2012/12/7 10:34

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Having a wrong Understanding of the Gospel & thinking we have a right spirit some

Hi Jeff,

Jesus commended those who called out the false teachers and called them liars. That part seems to get skimmed over quickly. Jesus also told another that he held against them that they tolerated that wicked woman Jezebel who led away the sheep into sin. That seems to get skimmed over too. Never does Jesus say in any of these letters, "but when you found them to be false aposrles & called them liars (which he commended), you just weren't 'loving' enough in how you said/did it." never. This is a deceptive false "love focus" from the enemy to slide deception in the house and accept things which God hates & rejects.

I understand. But the focus on love cannot be so easily dismissed or marginalized. Love is not in opposition to unrighteousness or error, it offers a path to restoration and reconciliation to God and man. The disciples prior to Pentecost wanted to call fire from heaven to destroy those that rejected Christ. Jesus told them plainly that they did not know what manor of spirit they were of. This is the great question. Loving our enemies or those that oppose themselves means treating them in a way that Christ would treat them. We need to err on the side of love and compassion. In fact, if we have the Spirit of Christ it will not be difficult to love. It is a fruit of the Spirit. We can love righteousness and hate iniquity and error and still have a right spirit. That is what this is all about.

Robert Wurtz II

 2012/12/7 10:43Profile


True, but brother, who has called down fire from heaven on anyone here? Honestly? If many people would spend as much time in the Word of God & prayer as they did in defending themselves on the Internet, they would see the OVERWHELMING theme in NT scripture (& OT) to beware of false teachers, to warn others, to preserve the purity of the Gospel, etc., etc.

Who's calling down fire from heaven on others because they are warning people to keep themselves away from idolatrous doctrines of devils? Where is this imaginary army of mean people who need this barrage of "love" talk so they will just shut up and let the lies and false teaching persist?

The only fire some are trying to call down from heaven is the truth of the presence of God to burn away the Apostacy and refine the saints understanding of the Gospel, which is the power of God to save their souls.

What's unloving about that? Do you have small kids? I have 5. If they are playing in a busy intersection, what's more loving - to let them play and risk their lives or to shout with all your might - "GET OUT OF THE ROAD, LEST YOU DIE!!!"? Am I to be more focused on how my tone was perceived as I yelled, or getting my toddler to hear me and out of harms way into safety? Just cause I yelled as loud as necessary to get their attention (& potentially save their lives) am I now somehow "calling down fire from heaven on them"?

So what's "love" in your estimation? Letting the children play in harms way, or doing whatever necessary to keep them safe?

 2012/12/7 11:06


"Loving our enemies or those that oppose themselves means treating them in a way that Christ would treat them."

Why do people on this forum assume that because you call out what is false (so that people won't be deceived) that you don't have love for the person or those in the false religious system being discussed?

Paul, who love the Galatians said:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
(Gal 1:6-10)

The Apostle Paul, under the influence of the Spirit of Christ, said that if anyone preaches another gospel...LET THEM BE ACCURSED. If he was alive today and made a comment like that on this forum, he would be condemned by Greg, the moderators, and pretty much everyone on down the line. He would be labeled as unloving, having a mean and critical spirit, and accused of condemning an entire denomination to damnation (how arrogant right?). All the people accusing him would think they are operating in love, when in fact they would be operating in a false spirit and a false love, and coming against the very Spirit of Christ that does divide. That is no different than what is happening on this forums with all those who are defending Mother Teresa and the Catholic Church.

So what do you think Robert, was Paul to harsh and unloving to tell the Galatians that those who preach another gospel are accursed? After all the Galatians believed in Jesus, believed in the virgin birth, believed in the resurrection. All they were doing it adding a little law to their faith. Was Paul too harsh to call them accursed if they believe that gospel and preach it? Heck, they had less error that the Roman Catholic church does! So if it's unloving to point these things out about the Catholic church, was it unloving for Paul to do so with the Galatians? The word is still the standard right?

 2012/12/7 11:08


And do not be self-deceived:

Letting others believe a lie, & ESPECIALLY exalting and heralding a false teacher and affirming their demonic religion is not love no matter HOW YOU STATE IT. True gentleness is a fruit of the Spirit that isn't deceptive or skirts truth, but sees blemishes & still attempts to be gentle WHILE NOT DECEIVING ONE TO BELIEVE A LIE. That's a false humility. Kinda like Peter telling Jesus, "Not so Lord, this shall not be (going to the cross)". Did Jesus say some sugary response in some FALSE HUMILITY or FALSE GENTLENESS? Absolutely not. He rebuked him sternly & said (with prophetic unction, for the spirit of prophecy is the spirit of Jesus), "Get behind me Satan, for you have in mind the things of man, not of God".

How loving was that? Could Jesus be "un-loving"? Of course not. Jesus loved Peter enough to speak truth, not mushy man-centered sentimentality. Don't confuse that with love. It's not. That's deception.

 2012/12/7 11:14

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37702
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11



To be honest with you the SermonIndex forums is not a personal pulpit for you to preach your burden to warn all the body of Christ including the moderators that we are not exhibiting discernment. Also disregarding publically any sense of the authority of the moderators on this forum also.

I believe there are some in these days who are not under any local church elder, who will not submit to authority but only to those that agree with them. These will speak their mind no matter how much hurt or damage is done to those around them. I wonder why there were not entire epistles given by the lay people rebuking jezebel or the nicolations. It was because they had a great respect for authority and would not even slander celestial beings. This is important and something that should not be disregarded.

The forums here are a place for each to learn from each other and not to Open air preach as it were our thoughts not caring of what is posted in response. This is not a teachable spirit.

So brother please realize if you are going to continue in this way on the forums you will simply be asked to leave participating on the site. Some have with "much less to work with" threatened to report sermonindex and myself to discernemnt ministry sites to write an expose. I personally never defended myself in such cases. And these have actually been written about myself which shows the true spirit behind all of this.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/12/7 11:22Profile


Greg, why do you post topics and then condemn and silence those who have differing views because of the scripture? This is a discussion forum, right? Is that Godly behavior? If people must either agree with you or be silent, why not make it a forum rule?

Also, in your responses you presume to know the thoughts and intents of those posting. You keep insinuating that it is not done in love, simply because they bring the scriptures into the conversation. David prayed that God would keep him from presumptuous sin. I think you should do the same (and we should we all).

By the way, no one came on here making SI their personal soap box. People have simply been responding to your original post.

 2012/12/7 11:54


Also Greg, I know you deleted one article I posted. Did you also delet my comment to RobertW where I mentioned Paul's statements to the Galatian church, and where I asked questions as to how this situation with our discussion on Catholicism is any different?

 2012/12/7 12:07

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37702
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Hello my friend,

here are the forum guidelines, I will post them here:

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This set of rules will be added to and changed from time to time and this thread is locked from comments. (last edit Oc 20, 2012).


SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/12/7 12:15Profile


I am in local fellowship and under authority which God ordained, not man, I have no "discernment ministry website", nor soapbox. And frankly, in love brother, you have no real authority except that which the Lord has granted you. When sharing the scriptures and obeying them is against "your authority", then your authority is not in line with what God has granted you, but is crossing over into "Lording it over the people" and "silencing the voices of the prophetic voice" which is given by Christ to some. Don't tell me how SOME people think they do the Lord's bidding and are mean, and then throw out the baby with he bath water.
I have done as I felt led and my conscience is clean. You silence any/all who disagree with you and who post scriptural evidence, and then you defend a demonic cult and it's leaders to the death. In love brother, you hold no authority over me in the biblical sense (which is the only sense that matters, part of our whole point in this to you). I love you, but you seem to disregard anything and everyone who doesn't agree with you and you are crossing over into reigning your own kingdom. I have warned you in love privately, More then two or three have come to you likewise, and now am warning you publicly - you are watering down the Gospel and are defending wolves who seek to eat the flock. You are walking onto dangerous ground. I say that with no joy, but pain of hurt and shock.
Years ago this website was aflame with God's Spirit & I fellowshipped Here (in the limited sense you can over the net) & drew from it. Now, you are allowing it to defend lies and you are attacking those who seek to lovingly warn against it with prophetic giftings. If you persist in this and dont self-examine taking it to the Lord, You will suffer great loss for this and will be ashamed one day for not taking this matter to the throne and seeking God's heart on the matter.
Again, paint me as whatever evil meanie you want, but I speak this in love, in sadness of heart, and in the Spirit of Christ who loves the sheep and despises Jezebel, the ministry of the Nicolaitains, the Synogauge so Satan, etc. You can kick me off of "YOUR" site, but you can't make me sit in silence and watch the sheep led into the wolves pen by self-proclaimed "love experts". God forbid!

 2012/12/7 12:19

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