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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Justification by Faith

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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

noah, jimp: I am in total agreement. James points out that works are the evidence of faith. These works, in my opinion, are works of obedience. The proof of my faith is my obedience. If I really believe God, I will do what God says to do. But the basis of my justification is the fact that I put faith on what Christ has done. The obedience is the evidence of my faith that is visible in the flesh.

Edit for analogy sake: The analogy of a horse and a cart just came to me. The horse and the cart are one unit. They go together and cannot be separated. Where the horse goes, the cart follows. But I would not think that it was the cart that provided the power by which both reach their destination. Faith comes first and works of obedience follow. They are necessarily and inextricably connected, but the horse provides the power by which the cart follows to the destination.


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Travis

 2012/12/5 7:17Profile









 Re:

you know I don't mean to seem to some that I am falling into legalism. because I know what that feels like. doing works for a slave master.. neverending. rather than a loving relationship you can't help but want other people to come to have also

thank you jimp and twayneb

blessings

 2012/12/5 11:47
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Justification is only by faith in Jesus Christ. But there is no use of faith without repentance. Without repentance there is no Justification, no matter which Jesus you believe in.
This is what Jesus preached and the apostles preached. Sadly repentance is totally ignored in most of Churches today, because if they need to speak on Repentance then they need to speak on what to repent from and if they speak of what to repent from then their members will get offended and stop coming to church, Church will lose its NUMBER.


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Sreeram

 2012/12/5 15:51Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

sree , when you make Jesus Lord of your life,you repent.you turn from you being Lord to Him being Lord and He will lead us away from sin which He conquered at the cross.jimp

 2012/12/5 16:02Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

sree , when you make Jesus Lord of your life,you repent.you turn from you being Lord to Him being Lord and He will lead us away from sin which He conquered at the cross.jimp



What you are saying here is Sanctification. Repentance is to hate your past life and to come out of it. Without repentance there is no Justification, period. This is where all your Church teaching gets worldly. Deception.

When Peter spoke on the day of Pentecost.
Acts 2:37:-
Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter did not tell them to accept Jesus and you will automatically repent like how all modern day money loving Church (that rejoices in NUMBER) preaches. He said Repent first and then be baptized. Even before they receive the Holy Spirit, Peter wanted them to repent.

This is why Christianity is so shallow today, what God has united (Repentance and faith) has been separated to make more money. At least now acknowledge the truth.


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Sreeram

 2012/12/5 16:26Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

dear sree, ithink that we have a very alive church in the midst of some charlitans. Jesus is still the head of the church.you get saved when the Holy Spirit woos you and you obey that wooing by giving your life to Jesus.a sinner cannot of himself stop being a sinner,he must have the Holy Spirit in him to convict and be our comforter(cum forte means with strength in latin)jimp

 2012/12/5 16:51Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

I think the scripture speaks for itself. Anything other than that is a lie. Well if you believe your Church is above God's word then please go ahead. let God alone be true and every man a liar.

The problem with this kind of wrong teaching is you show a person about Salvation without showing him he is a wretched sinner and asking him to repent.

A quote from Paris Reidhead,

Please don't use John 3:16 with an unawakened sinner. Because, if you tell a sinner how to be saved, before he knows he needs to be saved, you only succeed in hardening him toward the gospel.

This is exactly what such churches who have seperated repentance is achieving, they are producing people who are hard hearted towards the Gospel but keep believing some how they are going to heaven. They are only lead into the broader way of hell.


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Sreeram

 2012/12/5 17:15Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

sree, you have little no nothing to do with a sinners response to the gospel.you are born from above not from mans technics.unless the H.S.comes on the scene...nothing happens.jimp

 2012/12/5 21:13Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Repentance is to believe on Him whom God has sent.

John 6:29-40 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

John 6:27-29 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, ((((((This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.))))))_

Who gives us and grants us repentance unto life?

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

The same as by faith; Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

All Faith and Repentance unto life and Salvation must come from God.

1 Corinthians 1:23-31 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. (((((But of him are ye in Christ Jesus,))))) (((((who of God is made))))) unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

We cannot glory in our faith or our repentance, for if it is unto enternal life, it does not come from us.

This is our glory and repentance, that we believe on Him whom God has sent, Jesus Christ the Son of God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/12/6 16:24Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

If repentance is to believe in Jesus then what is faith? the word believe is very lightly used by such deceived teachings. Believe in Jesus means to believe like how a newly married wife believes completely in her husband and gives her life for him. A wife who says I believe in her husband but walks in her own way is a liar.

Repentance means change of heart. Our heart which was originally set on the needs of flesh will be changed to be set on the ways of God. But repentance alone cannot produce God's ways in us. The best example of Repentance is when the Prodigal son turned himself from longing for Pigs food to the direction of his fathers house. And only after he started walking towards the father's house, the father started running towards him. If the Son never turned towards the father then there is no redemption for him, he will die living with pigs.

Sadly all the Churches who preach faith alone without repentance are telling the Prodigal son that though he is longing for Pigs food he is still redeemed. How is it possible? Deception. Their life will bear witness for it. There will not be any light in either those who are in such church or those who even preach such stuff. There will be divorce and all darkness in their testimony that is not common even with unbelievers. Deception.

How did the Prodigal son turn? He turned because there was a clear conviction in his heart that his status is worse and he needs his father to save him from this condition. Same way the 3000 souls that got added on the day of Pentecost were first pierced to their heart by the word that Peter Shared which brought conviction in their heart that they need to be saved. Peter spoke about their sins and showed them they were sinners. But all the money loving churches of today does not want to speak of the sins of people because they will not get the NUMBERs that bring in money. Deception.


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Sreeram

 2012/12/6 17:27Profile





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