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dougkristen
Member



Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Imputed Righteousness... A sinless Christian

I have been studing the scriptures in Romans 6-8 and other places and have come to the conclusion that Christians should be without sin and are "the righteousness of Christ" based on Faith we have in the work on the cross. We are dead to sin. It's that simple.

We should not have habitual sins in our lives if we are yielding our members to Him.

Grace,
Doug


_________________
a Jesus freak

 2005/3/1 13:17Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re: Imputed Righteousness... A sinless Christian

I believe a believer is able to be free from all known sin - but that known sin makes up only a small percentage of the sin they commit each day.

I have not experienced this freedom however.

Dan


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/1 13:45Profile









 Re:

Christian freedom is freedom from sin, not freedom to sin.

There is no Heaven without holiness
There is no covering without cleansing
There is no forgiveness without forsaking

Your right. I heard Keith Daniels talk about righteousness imputed and righteousness imparted.

Heres a short poem I wrote called "Holiness"

They say it’s hard- impossible,
But Lord I have to try.
My soul longs for your holiness,
Please give it else I die.
The road is rough, the road is long,
But I count not the cost.
I need to wrap in thy holiness
Or else I fear I’m lost.

None of me, and all of you,
That is what I need.
To be like you I need your strength
For that is what I plead.

Holiness, holiness, holiness!
My God there must be more.
I hate my sin, I hate this world.
Oh God please make me pure.

 2005/3/1 13:58
alanrepent
Member



Joined: 2005/1/13
Posts: 59


 Re:

Quote:

I have not experienced this freedom however.



Brother, you need to repent. This is the grace of God and it is always sufficient. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 2005/3/1 16:37Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Quote:

alanrepent wrote:
Brother, you need to repent. This is the grace of God and it is always sufficient. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.



I certainly do.


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/1 17:04Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Free From Known Sin

Quote:
I have not experienced this freedom however.



Bro. Alan makes a good point for repentance in that the only thing we can do is to turn to God. Our minds have to change to the place to where we utterly know that we cannot be saved in ourselves. It is a crying out for mercy that God will surely hear.

I once set out to add the 'Gospel' laws to the 613 of the Old Testament. For those unfamiliar (according to the Jews) the very first law in the Bible is to "be fruitful and multiply." The second is circumcision and the third is not eating the sinew of the animal (Jacob's hip issue). There are many then added from the rest of the books of Moses. Let me show you how my supplemental list looked:

Biblical Laws (RW's Extended Version)

614) Repent! (Matthew 3:2)
615) Be baptized. (Matthew 3:6a)
616) Publicly confess your sins (3:6b)
617) Bring fruits worthy of repentance (3:8)
618) Do not say you have Abraham as your father (3:9)
619) Do not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (4:4b)
620) You will not tempt the Lord your God (4:7)
621) You shall worship the Lord your God... (4:10a)
622) Him alone will you serve (4:10b)
623) Follow me... (4:19)

So on and so forth until the number could have reached near a thousand. Yet I realized that God was not trying to give me a bunch of rules to keep- He was showing me how I WILL live and behave once I am Born Again, filled with the Spirit (continually), and Walking in the Spirit. It was not a list of "do's" and "don'ts" it was the manifestation of what we were NOT doing (as impenitent sinners) and a revelation of what we WILL be doing once we are truly Born Again.

Victory over sin is a common issue on sermonindex that folk want to be free from 'sin.' And you are right 'technically' it is nonsense to think that we are all in perfect harmony with all the revealed laws of God that pertain to us at any given moment. In the 613 laws of the Old Testament there are 248 "do's" as well as 365 "dont's." I was just reading through my list last night and thought- "Wow! we don't even have a clue." Yet we are not to be alarmed at this as the scripture teaches that if we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law. Which law? Both the law of Moses and the 'law of sin.' This is what God requires of us- no more and no less. We are to walk in the Spirit. To do this we must seek the Lord to be filled with the Spirit daily by His grace and mercy. HE will write His laws in our hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit as we study and seek Him. As for the 'fulness of the Spirit'- If we ask for bread He will not give a stone- so just ask; "Lord fill me with your Holy Spirit... I am waiting on you..." If you are in Christ and will genuinely walk in the Spirit there is now NO condemnation to you.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/3/1 17:45Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: sinless

I must say that once I thought we could also be "sinless". Meaning that we could be free from doing "outward" sins. Sins that you premeditate, sins that you can see. But at that time, I didn't realize how ugly my insides still were because I was still full of hidden sins like pride and unforgiveness. Even in the thought process, you get angry for the wrong reasons, you shout at your child, you have a bad attitude toward your spouse, you have bad or angry thoughts toward a brother, you have religious pride that you had no idea you had. And on and on........

Yes, we should definitely be seeking to get rid of hidden sin, habitual sin, premeditated sin. But it takes a lifetime - it's a lifelong process of getting rid of pride, and the inner heart sins (attitudes, etc....)

What I realized is this also. That if we were already perfected- and a while back I would have liked to think I could be perfect- then there is a huge opportunity for us to have some major pride. Religious pride.

Also, if we are perfected and don't need the mercy of God everyday for our stupidness, then we will not lean on Him, we will not desperately need Him.

I cannot tell you, though I would like to be free from all sin, there are days where the Lord exposes my ugly heart and I have been full of pride about something. I might think I am right about everything, or don't want anyone to know my failures about something (which is pride). And when I see this, when I see what God sees in my heart and He exposes it. I run to Him and ask His forgivness and I am amazed at his mercy. [b]How I need Him everyday![/b] How I need His cleansing power and also His mercy because I am such a sinner still.

Just when I think I am doing pretty good and there is no sign of outward sin in my life, I see some hidden, inner thing that makes me want to puke. Maybe my lack of compassion for someone. Maybe that i looked down on someone because of what they said or do or wear. When I have no right.

None of us is perfect yet and we won't be until we see Him face to face.

Sanctification is a process. We are nothing in his presence and if we think we have arived or achieved any sort of holiness, then He will be sure to show you that you are not where you think you are. And if He hasn't shown you lately, you better ask Him to show you.

My prayer continually is "Search me and know me, see if there be any wicked way in me." and He does show me all the time.

He honors the fact that you are willing to be shown your ugliness and that you are willing to be shown and to be changed.

we do not want to be like the hypocrite/pharisee that said about the tax collector "Thank God I am not like that sinner". Isn't that what we would say if we were already sinless. "Thank God I don't sin anymore like all those other sinners." When in fact those other sinners who we may be talking about are on their knees saying "I am not worthy, have mercy on me". Just like the tax collector did. And who did the Lord have mercy on? Not the relgious, law following pharisee, but the humble sinner who knew he was not worthy, who knew he did not deserve anything. Who knew he was a sinner.


In Him love, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/3/1 18:19Profile









 NO pride in abiding

Rom. 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

Many think that peace, righteousness, and joy are just things that Christ distributes or gives out, but for a kingdom to exist, you must have a king. Only when we are united to King Jesus, do these privileges actually exist. These are not something that Christ just gives away then departs. They only exist as the result of His continual presence within us. I don't think I can emphasize enough the fact that Christ's LIFE can only exist as a result of Christ's actual presence within us. LIFE is not something that Christ just declares or gives out and then leaves. Christ Himself is the only true source of LIFE and we must always be totally dependent on His continual presence within us. Christ ONLY imparts LIFE to us as he lives within us.

When a light bulb is connected to electricity the bulb produces both light and heat. This light and heat only exist as long as the power flows. The light and heat are only the result of being properly connected to the power source. If the electricity is disconnected the light goes out instantly and the bulb will grow cold. The believer is like the light bulb, he can not produce his own light or heat without the electricity flowing. Christ is the believers "electricity" and only true source of spiritual power. Only when we are properly connected to HIM will we experience HIS true life, righteousness, peace and joy.

1 John 5:11-12 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that does not have the Son of God does not have life."

John 15:1-6 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that bears not fruit He takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, He purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If any man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Christ is the vine and we are the branches. Do you know Christ as your only source of continual nourishment and life? Much fruit is the real evidence of this union and fruitlessness is the proof of no union. If a person separates himself from Christ, he has no spiritual life at all. Christ is the inducing cause of a believer's obedience.

Does a true branch get prideful when fruit is produced? NO! It is the fruit of THE VINE, not the branch. It is the LIFE of Christ in the branch that produces the fruit.


From Christian Perfection by Asa Mahan.

No mater what condition we find ourselves in, there is a specific remedy provided in the Gospel for complete and total victory. Do our lusts rebel? We are told, that if "Christ be in us, the body is dead because of sin;" that "the old man is crucified with Him." and that if we will "walk in the spirit, we shall not fulfil the lusts of the flesh." Do the world and Satan entice? We are assured that "this is the victory that over comes the world, even our faith;" that "stronger is He that is in us, than he that is in the world; and that, when we have "put on the whole armor of God," we shall be able, with the shield of faith, to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one." In short, from whatever source temptation to sin arises, we are assured that God will not "suffer us to be tempted above what we are able," but will, "with the temptation, make way for our escape." With Christ within us, and these "exceeding great and precious promises" around us, we are commanded to "reckon ourselves dead indeed to sin, and alive unto God through our Lord Jesus Christ." In the presence of such facts and promises, who would dare to say to the Christian, It is impracticable for you to "cleanse yourself from all filthiness of the flesh, and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God?"

 2005/3/2 9:32
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
I have not experienced this freedom however.



Bro. Alan makes a good point for repentance in that the only thing we can do is to turn to God. Our minds have to change to the place to where we utterly know that we cannot be saved in ourselves. It is a crying out for mercy that God will surely hear.

I once set out to add the 'Gospel' laws to the 613 of the Old Testament. For those unfamiliar (according to the Jews) the very first law in the Bible is to "be fruitful and multiply." The second is circumcision and the third is not eating the sinew of the animal (Jacob's hip issue). There are many then added from the rest of the books of Moses. Let me show you how my supplemental list looked:

Biblical Laws (RW's Extended Version)

614) Repent! (Matthew 3:2)
615) Be baptized. (Matthew 3:6a)
616) Publicly confess your sins (3:6b)
617) Bring fruits worthy of repentance (3:8)
618) Do not say you have Abraham as your father (3:9)
619) Do not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (4:4b)
620) You will not tempt the Lord your God (4:7)
621) You shall worship the Lord your God... (4:10a)
622) Him alone will you serve (4:10b)
623) Follow me... (4:19)

So on and so forth until the number could have reached near a thousand. Yet I realized that God was not trying to give me a bunch of rules to keep- He was showing me how I WILL live and behave once I am Born Again, filled with the Spirit (continually), and Walking in the Spirit. It was not a list of "do's" and "don'ts" it was the manifestation of what we were NOT doing (as impenitent sinners) and a revelation of what we WILL be doing once we are truly Born Again.

Victory over sin is a common issue on sermonindex that folk want to be free from 'sin.' And you are right 'technically' it is nonsense to think that we are all in perfect harmony with all the revealed laws of God that pertain to us at any given moment. In the 613 laws of the Old Testament there are 248 "do's" as well as 365 "dont's." I was just reading through my list last night and thought- "Wow! we don't even have a clue." Yet we are not to be alarmed at this as the scripture teaches that if we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law. Which law? Both the law of Moses and the 'law of sin.' This is what God requires of us- no more and no less. We are to walk in the Spirit. To do this we must seek the Lord to be filled with the Spirit daily by His grace and mercy. HE will write His laws in our hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit as we study and seek Him. As for the 'fulness of the Spirit'- If we ask for bread He will not give a stone- so just ask; "Lord fill me with your Holy Spirit... I am waiting on you..." If you are in Christ and will genuinely walk in the Spirit there is now NO condemnation to you.

God Bless,

-Robert



Amen.


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/3/2 13:51Profile









 Re: Extremely Important

There is probably not a more important issue in all of Christianity than this subject about sin, forgiveness, justificaiton, and sanctification. We all have our theology. I certainly have mine.
Coming from a religious background that was bound in legalism, the doctrine of justification was very difficult to understand and accept.
Let me say that I do not believe in eternal security, but I do believe we are eternally secure in Christ Jesus if our blessed hope is in His finished work alone.
When the writer of Hebrews in Chapter 6 referred to "backslidding", he's not speaking of a believer that gets caught up in his sinful nature again and has to struggle to find his/her way back to the cross. He's talking about those believing jews who had once heard and believed the Gospel, only to turn away and back to the law of Moses, the law of self righteousness. This is true backslidding, when we turn away from Christ and Him crucified.
My bible tells me that we have been saved to the uttermost. That's perfection personafied. It tells me that we have already been crucified with Christ and in God's eyes already seated with Him in heavenly places (past tense). It tells me that Jesus Christ is an all sufficient Savior. His shed blood is more than enough and we have already passed from judgement into life. The part of me that is a new creation will live forever as long as I hold fast to my blessed hope in Jesus Christ. The part of me that will never see eternal life has not changed at all. It cannot be changed. It is destined for the grave. It still has the same desires as before I met Christ personally. My flesh and it's infinitely wicked desires can only be put to death by a life that is strong enough to overcome it and subdue it. My spirit man, that new creation is strong when it is well fed with the Holy Word of God and well excercised against many foes. It is most alive when it is in communion with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. But my flesh and spirit will war against one other until my flesh breathes it's last.
Paul said that all things were permitted, but not all things are profitable. So we see that even though there is no law for the new creation, it is not profitable for us to take this license as an occasion for the flesh. No, if we are truly sons and daughters, our faithful Father will surely chastise us. But He never takes our birth certificate out and erases our names off of them as some would have you believe. You don't do that to your children, do you? Of course not. You correct them in your own wisdom, understanding, and love. Our Father does the same with us.
Paul said he had a thorn in the flesh. Three times he pleaded with God to remove it. But God did not remove it. Why? Because had He done so, the message of grace would have dried up on the vine. Paul did not have a physical infirmity as some teach. Why? Because God said His grace was sufficient. We don't need grace for healing, we need His power over the weaknesses of our flesh to provide healing. We need grace (unmerited favor) because of our sins and sin nature of the old man. We need righteousness undeserved, imputed righteousness. Oh alleluia. You cannot earn it, all you can do is receive it and accept it. There is no rest for the sin weary soul appart from grace and imputed righteousness.
Saint, don't let some well intended yet ignorant person steal your hope, your peace, and your joy by laying responsibility for your holiness on your own obedient perfection. It's impossible and we all know it is. So turn away from such turmoil into the peaceful bliss of imputed righteousness.
As our brother Tozer once said, if we take a bottle and remove the cork and sink into the deepest depths of the sea, the bottle is seen no more. It has been swallowed up by the ocean. It is immersed in it. It contains 100% ocean inside it, but it does not contain 100% of the ocean. If you go to the sea shore and look for the bottle, all you can see is ocean. When God looks out over His kingdom for His own, all He can see is Jesus, and those who have been immersed by faith into His glorious victory. Somebody ought to shout right here. Alleluia. \o/ Glory be to God now and forever amen.

 2005/3/2 15:35





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