SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God hates and loves the sinner.

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
InLove
Member



Joined: 2010/11/17
Posts: 53


 Re:

Jimp, I will take it that you are a Bible believeing person. That if the Bible says it you won't try to explain it away?

Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I want to add that God loves sinners as well. Why can He not do both at the same time? Because we can't? Lets try not to bring God to our limitations.

 2012/10/19 20:39Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Regarding God hating and loving sinners at the same time, years ago I read it explained this way by John MacArthur and thought it made a lot of sense. He compared it to a husban/wife relationship. If a wife cheats on her husband, or vice versa, the betrayed spouse will feel hurt and angry toward his/her spouse, while at the same time still have feelings of love toward them. In many cases the offended spouse will hope that the offending spouse sincerely repents of his/her infidelity.

Similarly, God loves every unrepentant sinner and it is clear by the way He is patient with them. At the same time, He is hurt, grieved, and angered by the way sinners rebel against Him. He offers forgiveness of sins on the condition of repentance and faith in Christ.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/10/19 21:01Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Edit: double post, deleted one.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/10/19 21:01Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Jimp,I know I'm jumping in here, but I have read this entire thread. Are you sure that it is impossible for love to hate?

~You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." (Heb 1:9)~

This very Scripture is speaking of the Lord Jesus.


If you love children you will hate abortion

If you love Africans you will hate slavery

If you love Jews you will hate the Holocaust

If you love righteousness you must hate iniquity

Please don't confuse God's righteous anger and hatred with the wicked and corrupted anger of fallen men. Man was made in the image of God, with personality, reason, and emotion. But upon the fall the image of God in man has been defiled in every way. Therefore the anger you see expressed in this world, from man to man, is unrighteous. But God is Holy and good and He truly loves righteousness. He truly loves all that which conforms to His own character. Therefore He hates every and all sin and those who remain in it. If God loves everyone then no one is going to hell right? If God's love is impure and not so holy then won't even hitler and stalin be allowed into heaven? Because surely He would love even those who refuse Him. If He loves everything and everyone why would He even send folks to hell? If God is all love and cannot hate why did Christ even have to die? But the truth is that all, apart from grace, are like hitler in heart including myself and all have turned from God. All are guilty of hating Him! So the real question is how can a good just God love wicked men?

I'm glad that you want to emphasize the love of God. But it's impossible to do if you ignore the justice of God. You can throw out all kinds of Scriptures which speak of the love of God however you must reconcile them with other Scriptures which clearly say that God hates those who do evil. Wrongly dividing the Word of God is dangerous business.

jimp, in an earlier post on this thread, pasted below, you said that Jesus hated the "religious people etc,

"Jesus spent His life with sinners and loved them wherever He went. He hated the pompous religous people (scribes, pharisees,saduceesetc.)He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save those who believe into Him."


So Jesus does hate, if he didn't He wouldn't have had to come and be a willing sacrifice to satisfy the wrath of God in the place of His people. Man could have continued on in sin just fine and "god" who loves anything, wouldn't have minded a bit. Jesus wouldn't have needed to come.

Jimp, religious people and pharisees are sinners too. Self righteousness is just as much a sin as adultery or murder. The pharisee Saul was a sinner.

Jimp here is another previous post of yours,

"hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate."


Is it really possible for love to hate? That is not the teaching of Scripture. Scripture clearly states that God is love, and Scripture clearly says that there are things and people that God hates.

Jesus wept over sinners, Jesus pleaded with sinners, Jesus told the truth and warned sinners. Jesus told sinners that the righteous judgment of God was coming. Jesus suffered and died in the sinners place proving that God is just and righteous Rom 3.

The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD is avenging and wrathful; the LORD takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. (Nah 1:2)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (Rom 1:18)


Jesus had severe warnings to all who persist in sin and unbelief. Repent or perish! Broad is the way that leads to destruction. Fear not man, but God who can destroy body and soul in hell Matt 10:28. This same Jesus spoke of wielding the winnowing fork and baptisms of fire.

His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Luk 3:17)

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psa 2:12)

Yes Jesus love sinners to, but it is always a pure and redeeming love. The very reason Christ came was to save His people from their sin. Jesus had to come and die and bear the punishment from a just God that sinners like you and me deserve. He had to bear the curse of the law in our place. The curse which was from God! This is indeed amazing grace and love that no tongue can ever proclaim. But this love is a holy love that does not contradict righteous hatred. Everyone who comes to repentance and faith in Christ will be poor in spirit, their mouth of self justification will be stopped, and they will be contrite in heart. And everyone who has been convicted of sin, righteousness, and judgment knows that God has righteous wrath. Everyone who is broken in spirit knows that God's justice is good and it is only in this light that the love of God is so wondrously displayed in the cross of Christ.


_________________
Rick

 2012/12/7 20:12Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, you gave examples of opposites.sinners are sinners.jimp how did Jesus treat sinners He met in the bible?

 2012/12/7 21:58Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Pharisees are sinners and Publicans are sinners.

But just for clarity's sake, before further discussion, what is your definition of the word sinner?


_________________
Rick

 2012/12/7 22:11Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, a sinner is one who has one sin that is not under the blood.jimp

 2012/12/8 9:13Profile









 Re: God hates and loves the sinner.

God loves the sinner and no longer see his sin.

I am going to throw some statements out there. Most of you are going to instantly disagree, but we should give ourselves to consider them. All I ask is that you think about it for awhile and not to jump to conclusions.

Remember, God winked at all that. All of mans sins are under the blood of Jesus Christ. His blood was shed "Once for all". He is not forever bleeding every time a sinner repents and turns from his ways. He did it the once and every sinner in the world today is under the blood until he sees the light of the glorious gospel. And we thought that we were the only ones under the blood. We are under grace. That is why the grace of God extends further than iniquity because the blood of Jesus is there. The reminder of His sacrifice is on every creature which is the reason why God can come near to the worst of us. God has come near to the hell holes, the places we would consider the most filthiest, God is right there because the blood of the lamb is there. The wrath of God is revealed from heaven to those that have the truth and conceal it in unrighteousness. The world does not have the truth concealed, but former believers do. If any crowd that God is disgusted with it's having first believed and willfully does not want anything to do with Him. Better to be ignorant with mercy than to have knowledge with wrath.

 2012/12/8 9:56
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Jimp, thank you, but still more specific, what is sin?



Approved,

If all of mankind is now under the blood of the Lamb then what exactly is the point of missions and Gospel preaching? From what you wrote it sounds like it is safer to remain a pagan then to actually become a christian. It is true Scripture makes it clear that those who hear the Gospel but remain unconverted are in even a worse plight than those who never hear. But those who have never heard the Gospel are still guilty of sin and without excuse before God and under His wrath. When Paul in Romans 1 speaks of wrath being revealed he is talking about all of mankind, not just the Jews. Romans 1-3 is an indictment upon the entire human race. Jew and Gentile both are guilty of having the truth but yet suppressing it in unrighteousness. Did the Jews have greater light, yes, but both have vigorously rejected what light they had and are without excuse.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

One of the sermons promoted by SI clearly speaks to this issue of the condition of the lost pagan. Paris Reidhead's "Ten Shekels and a Shirt"

I would argue that not all men are under the blood of Christ, if this is so then all men are no longer under condemnation. If this is true then all men are part of the body of Christ. This would be universalism.

It seems to me that according to Scripture that all men are not under the blood until they do, savingly see the glorious light of the Gospel and repent and believe in Christ alone. The ones under the blood are the christians, not the unbelievers. It is the church that Christ bought with His precious blood. As in the first passover, it was only those with blood on their own doorpost and lintel who were saved.

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, (Rev 5:9)

Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, (Heb 13:20)

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, (Eph 1:7)

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (Rom 3:25)

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. (Rom 5:9)

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (Joh 6:53)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1Jn 1:7)


Surely the all in the "once for all" written by the author of Hebrews is speaking of all who believe in Christ. It is those who believe in Christ and by faith are justified by His blood. It is for whosoever believes.

God's winking at sin doesn't mean that it is a light thing to remain in unbelief. It definately shows His great forbearance. But at the cross God showed that He is indeed just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ Jesus. Not the justifier of those who have not faith. Christ didn't say that those who haven't heard of Him were under His blood. He said repent or you all likewise will perish.




_________________
Rick

 2012/12/8 11:27Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,of course; the only people under the blood are those who are in Christ.all others are under condemnation.you still become a sinner with the first sin.you become a liar with the first lie.jimp whatsoever not of faith is sin. faith is hearing from God ,believing what God said, and obeying what God said.

 2012/12/8 12:02Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy