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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Beginning Jan 1 in California it will be AGAINST THE LAW to try to turn minors away from sodomy ...

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If we elevate ANY particular sin to "undeliverable" status, we are throwing the gospel in the dirt!

Who is saying that?

 2012/10/1 11:32


If we elevate ANY particular sin to "undeliverable" status, we are throwing the gospel in the dirt!

Some people, in there zeal to say something profound, put words in people's mouths. I agree, Approved... no one has even suggested that.

The fact is... someone may never be totally delivered from a particular besetting sin. Or the temptation of a particular sin. And none of us will ever be completely delivered from sin in general until we arrive in heaven.

Thats why the gospel is called "the gospel of grace"! Isnt God merciful and loving? Yes... He is.

I dont know what it's like to struggle with homosexuality, but I do know what it is like to struggle with sin. Thats part of the human experience.


 2012/10/1 11:46

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida



Consider, Rehab, the Harlot. The one who let down the red string and who hid the spies of Israel. I believe she was no longer a harlot but a believer in God, although she will always be 'marked' as a harlot.

However, the Mark I see on her is from the hand of God and not of her making.

No judgment here.


 2012/10/1 12:13Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497


"Well, I kind of agree with this law.

I have a question based on an observation.

Usually when an idea is made into a law, others will in time interpret it to mean some other then the framers of it originally intended.

Is it not possible that in time people who will even suggest to a homo that there is deliverance/redemption in Christ Jesus that he/she will be in violation of this law and therefore be prosecuted for it?

This would be my concern....

Sandra Miller

 2012/10/1 12:44Profile

Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA


Approved... no one has even suggested that.

Suggested??? The state of California has not only suggested, but passed it as law. In this cultural clash we either take sides with the majority or with Christ.
When we are discussing this newly passed law, and some give personal experience examples that tend to support the popular belief:

The people that I know of they either are resisting, struggling or gone back into the sin. I have never met (save yourself) a person who has been actually delivered completely.

Then, it could lead one to believe that perhaps the State of California is right … and the gospel of Jesus Christ is wrong.

I thank God for His powerful gospel that delivers from ALL sin regardless of society trends and beliefs about certain sins.

Michael Strickland

 2012/10/1 12:51Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


Hi Approved,

The problem with this law is in the applications for which it can be used. What happens if a teenager goes to a Church summer camp and is converted to Christ? What if a teen goes to a summer camp, youth group or Church meeting and is told the Biblical perspective about homosexuality? This law could be theoretically used against individuals and even churches.

When I was in college, a student spoke with me about his apparent attraction to guys. He told me that he "thought" that he was "gay." He knew that I was a Christian and involved in a campus ministry and respected me for it.

I knew that something was just not "right" with the silly "but I was born this way" claims used by some. Why? People are born asexual and don't develop sexual attraction until adolescence (whether normal or prematurely). Sadly, society is increasingly nurturing -- and even enticing -- individuals into sexual activity that is contrary to the nature that God created in this world. However, I am also aware that individuals are born with a sinful nature and that the sinful nature can crave a variety of pleasures that are contrary to the Word of God.

For most men, they must discipline their minds/bodies or else they would give into the craving to be with a woman (or women) other than their wives -- even if they were "born" with such desires. I know guys who have struggled with lust who confided that they "desired" nearly every beautiful woman who walked by them. They are attracted and given to pornography on the internet, movies and magazines that have them spiritually, emotionally and physically bound by such things.

The guy in college eventually confided that he had been molested multiple times by a man prior to and during puberty while living in an apartment complex while he was a kid. He said that he "enjoyed" the experiences. I prayed for the wisdom to share with this young man. I explained that there is a difference between "confusion" and "nature" and that the lines can often become blurred.

I flat out told him that he didn't desire men...but the pleasure that he experienced that just so happened to come from a man. I told him that I thought that this confused him at a young age; and, I explained that the confusion had continued all the way to the point where he was now a young man and had come to associate "sexual pleasure" with men because of a dirty man who molested him while he was a child.

I explained how God had designed mankind and nature and how we have to accept and commit to His design. I also described how many commit to God's design even though they are given many opportunities to give in to the "lust of the flesh," "lust of the eyes" and the "pride of life." A man with many qualities that are attractive to women can still say "no" to women who almost throw themselves at him IF that man has committed his life to God.

We spoke about other things and it seemed to make an impact into this young man's mind. I was able to pray with him and encourage him for some time after this meeting. It had an impact on his outlook. He started attending our campus ministry's weekly meeting. He started fellowship with a church. He even stopped sounding effeminate. This young man eventually met and married a girl who worked in the university's cafeteria. They now have a child. Ever-so-often, he still corresponds via email.

Now, what would have happened if this had happened under this new California law? Potentially, it could have been deemed "unlawful." Although it wasn't "therapy" in a medical sense, it could be "deemed" as "conversion" simply because I wanted to tell him the truth.

The most hypocritical part of this law is that "conversion" therapy is perfectly acceptable in California when some parents want to "deprogram" their children away from what they consider to be "religious indoctrination." Also, therapy is viable in other instances...such as drug and alcohol addiction, sex addiction, anger management, and other issues. Some of these individuals are LITERALLY "born this way" (e.g. a child whose mother was addicted to drugs while pregnant).

Yet, Liberal California politicians have embraced a "new morality" in which it is legally and legislatively "taboo" -- and now illegal -- to consider homosexuality "abnormal" or "depravity." You can't "convert" a child away from perceived homosexual tendencies yet the state can allow a school counselor indoctrinate a child to a pro-abortion stand and even take them -- without their parents' knowledge -- to an abortion clinic.

I strongly disagree with this law because it allows the legislature to pick and choose which ideologies that they want to protect. It doesn't protect children. It simply takes away more rights from parents and gives it to the state. Moreover, it represents a conflict with the "free speech" of parents and churches.

Sadly, I think that it is a sign of things to come.


 2012/10/1 13:53Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


embraced a "new morality"

Just a few years ago we were told that "you can't legislate morality." Now it seems that is all they do legislate.

Mike Compton

 2012/10/1 16:16Profile


The problem with this law is in the applications for which it can be used. What happens if a teenager goes to a Church summer camp and is converted to Christ? What if a teen goes to a summer camp, youth group or Church meeting and is told the Biblical perspective about homosexuality? This law could be theoretically used against individuals and even churches.

When I said that I agree with the law somewhat, I wasn't agreeing with the designers, I was merely in agreement that therapy sometimes does more harm then good. I am in no way in favour of this law.

This law and any other law that goes against the law of God continually reminds me of Daniel and his political collegues ganging up on him by creating new laws or perverting existing ones.

Brethren I am in full knowledge of what is taking place. I know that there is an agenda right now in governement and in the principalities and powers that be that are doing everything they can to eradicate the name of Jesus, to bring a reproach against Him and His people. The homosexual agenda is the pawn that is being used to do this. There is nothing, absolutely nothing that justifies the courts to use the constitition in favour of same sex marriages and the freedoms and the like, this is all propaganda to corner the believer, to shut him up from speaking. Not that we are rats but the application still applies, when you chase a rat into a corner and it has no way out, it will lunge out in the direction of the pursuer. There will come a point in being run down, run over, pushed and shoved, kicked and spat on that the Church of Jesus Christ will become violent in her faith and lunge out through acts of mercy faith and judgement. Right now, we are just taking it. We are putting up with it. When the Kingdom of God comes near, for we are in the season, for another demonstration of the power of God that will shake the very foundations of all earthly powers.

Thank you for that proxy testimony. The word of God changes people.

I know of a person who had paranoid schizophrenia which begged money from a young minister. The minister got smart one day and told him that he would grant him his few cents if he gave ear to the scriptures. He agreed. For sometime he came in to get his daily fare and intake of scripture until one day the young preacher had no money to give him. By this time, a remarkable change had been working in this man's life and he told the preacher, I am not here for the money, I stopped wanting the money sometime ago, I just want to hear the word. I knew this man from way back. He was very violent and committed arson on several occasions and he was deeply troubled, in and out of every half way house and special care homes and the reports were coming in from those that knew him that something had changed in him. It wasn't long after that he died. The word of God penetrated that man and the man that you ministered to. It got down into him that changed his life for the better.

Thank you for sharing that.

 2012/10/1 20:30

Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


Really though, what else is to be expected? When ungodly people are the majority(and they will be till Christ comes back) and they cast their vote, ungodly law passes. I'm not the one to tell Christians to vote, hold signs, or to organize a rally. Personally because i believe Christians aren't called to be political activists. We are called to preach the Gospel, not to reform ungodly men. Some how Christians believe that we are obligated to change society and its culture to be more Biblical, where does this come from? Yes men in the Bible preached against the sins of the land and of people, not to change the laws, or for reform, but to pronounce Gods judgement on ungodliness. Did things change? Not everytime. The messenger was not responsible for the response, he was responsible for preaching. If a law passes where I can't preach the Gospel in my State, how is that supposed to bother me? It ain't, because Christ said these things would happen and it ain't supposed to stop me.m I'm certainly not gonna be cryin bout how Christians are always getting the short end of the stick in America(as if this is a Christian nation, There is only one land God promised to His people and it ain't here.) There has been a fog and Christians need to wake up. The world ain't gonna get better no matter how many laws we can get passed, and God has appointed one name by which man can be saved, Jesus Christ. You're sick of what's going on? Well, go preach the gospel. Where should you start? On your front lawn. Every minute that passes people are dying and going to hell. Instead of counting how many said a prayer, maybe you should count how many you didn't bother to tell, that might sober you up.

The Gospel is the power of God.

 2012/10/4 2:25Profile

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