my dear frank, i am sorry you took umbrage with my post. my style of humor and writing is not very well developed and i surely do not lack love for the brethren although i might disagree about celebrating the coming persecution, my point is that Jesus is the head and that He said nothing shall prevail against it. if and when persecution comes, what are we to do but to serve and die.i would like to ask how my post did not show love so that i can repent of this and move on. i had friends who were 7th day adv, and went to waco and to tenn. because they thought persecution was coming ... it sure was, from the usa. i had other friends who feared y2000 . who moved and stored food and drink.(were they going to share it with others in need at the time?)i certainly sorry if i offend anyone on this sight.jimp

Well brother, you search your own heart and if it is good before the Lord then who am I to say otherwise? I personaly think that it is more helpful in a thread to commment on the original post itself rather than make comments like .......... "woe is me." or ........

"i certainly don't want to be a part of this morose thing called the church. who is the head of this gloom and doom organization with little hope?satan must have won all the victories in all the battles"

Now brother, what is the context for that statement? What in the original post would encourage you to make that above statement, there seems to be no humor in it at all unless it was mocking humor? The original post used Noah and Joseph as examples of people who had to go through trials and tribulations before victory came. If you have not been called to speak of coming persecution, why mock God's people who have? If you had a specific objection to content, why not comment on a specific objection? There is a whole Sermonindex conference coming up devoted entirely to this subject and yet you handily write it off with what you call humor? There are brothers coming to speak on this subject who have been subject to mocking and apathy and have went through much spiritual warfare just to attend this conference and speak as God has led them to speak. Now I wonder if you got that part brother Jimp, " as God has called them to speak." I would advise, before making such statements again, to check your heart bro and see if it is right before the Lord. If you say that you are comfortable with those statements then you will have the last word. ...........bro Frank

dear frank, thank you for responding. i do disagree with the upcoming conference ,but that does not make me right. i have been wrong often in my life.joseph survived his trials because he had faith in God as did noah.they were blessed way above all men on the earth in their lifetime and became a blessing to others. i believe Jesus is the only answer and i am ready to go through anything trusting in His finished work that saves,delivers, sanctifies, heals.sozo...thank you for your kindness.jimp

Hey Jimp, you write..........

" i believe Jesus is the only answer and i am ready to go through anything trusting in His finished work that saves,delivers, sanctifies, heals.sozo...thank you for your kindness.jimp"

Now brother here is where we can agree and I say a hearty amen to that. If you do not watch any of the upcoming conference, I urge you to at least tune in and listen to the very last speaker, Brian Long. He is a good friend of mine and I know something of what he is going to be sharing. Watch it with an open heart brother and please let me know what you think. If you still disagree then we can simply agree to disagree while still respecting one another's position. I am sure you would agree that this is how the Lord would have us to act...........bro Frank

You wrote,

"Thank you docs, I to agree with most of what you are saying. Maybe you can catch this weekend's conference, the subject matter is " The coming persecution of the Church in the west." I know that Jimp and some others may not want to hear that or tune in, but there will be many good brothers sharing there and I believe will be sharing prophetically. And it will of course be a message of triumph because the Lord is coming back and no matter what persecution comes to the genuine saints on earth, they will glorify their Lord and be an aye-witness to His glory. Not because they are healthy or wealthy or succesful in this world but because they love their Lord more than this wolrd itself or anything that it has to offer..............bro Frank" (END)

I'm glad you reminded me of the upcoming conference on persecution etc. I was going to tune in but it just so happens that on Sat morn I will be relocating from Tallahassee, Fla. to Savannah, Ga. Please pray for me as I thought long and hard and have prayed much over the move. I got some pretty clear indications it was of the Lord and so I am going to try it whether I fail or not. I'm no spring chicken anymore and have gotten sort of settled in and it seems a easy and convenient path was where I was at. Family and friends and my hometown are close and all but yet I wasn't at peace with my settled and content peace if that makes any sense. I don't want to go gently into the good night and just do what everybody else is doing and along the way our zeal and witness for the Lord gets mediocre and settled and hemmed in by convenient and comfortable living circumstances etc. So I'm going to make this move and see how it goes. I have some work years left and part of the move is to get to a better working environment than is here right now. So there is a practicial side to the move also.

Meanwhile, I am going to notify several friends by email today and let them know of the conferecne so they might tune in if they wish. I'[m very glad this conference will address the issue it has chosen. Thanks again for the reminder.

Blessings to all on sermonindex

_________________
David Winter

Hi All,
I think it was Ruth Graham who said "if God doesnt judge America then he owes Sodom and Gommorah an apology.
So I think that America will be judged and the west as well.
However this persecution issue is different than judgement.
Persecution may well come but it has very little to do with the end times.The bible clearly indicates that their will be an end times church that will challenge openly the world far away from the underground church talked about on Sermonindex.
The Church of the end times is a church of world wide revival including the USA and the West its world wide.
So maybe the prophets of the USA are correct (although I'm not convinced )and persecution is coming but it is not an end times persecution of the tribulation.If they are not correct however they are leading people down a cul de sac which is a big worry.
Also this remnant church idea of an underground movement is influenced by your end times views.I do not have an escape mentality when it comes to the end times,we are not gauranteed escape from persecution.
When it comes to Judgement where is the God of Mercy on this forum?The idea that we dont get from God what we deserve this is mercy.Why cant USA be Nineveh?
Yours Staff

Hi staff, I appreciate your opinion and after all that's all any of us can say about the end times. I do not have an escape mentality about the end times, quite the opposite actually. The end times will be marked with a great falling away which I would argue that we are in the middle off. If you know of Ninevah, you will know that 100 years after the Great revival Ninevah was destroyed. America has had a great revival in the 20th century which flowed from the welsh revival and out of that came Azusa st.
So, by any standards we are ripe for judgment. The remnant church will be bold as lions and will not bow the knee to Baal or any other idol or whore church. This remnant church is a mighty army that marches on its knees and the world will hate it and come after it. If you know the history or the church you will know that it has always been that way and so it shall be again in these birth pang stages that are come upon us. ........ Bro Frank

Thanks Frank,
Still singing away to broken pieces!
I think God can still even at this late hour put a stay on that Judgement.The hundred years earlier Judgement was preached to Nineveh,specific and credible.
Now an important aspect is that persecution and Judgement are different.We have always had persecution in all its forms.
The problem we have is that we look at whats going on around us right now through the binoculars of our end time view.If I believe that we are going through the tribulation I will have a different view of whats going on right now and what it means than if I believe we wont go through the tribulation.Our end time view affects what we think is going on right now and let no man think it doesnt.
You look at things now as the "great falling away" because you are sequencing the events of the end time through your view that we will go through the great tribulation.
The great falling away will be world wide not just localized to the west.The majority of people on the site are North American and as regards persecution it appears to me that they cant see the wood from the trees.They are genuine Christians no doubt on that but are living in a bubble which is the natural outcome of their end time view.

Remnant:A small remaining quantity of something.

The bible shows that their will be a world wide revival sweeping millions and millions into the kingdom before he comes back and if the definition of a remnant church is a small church then I disagree wholeheartedly with the view that Jesus is coming back for a small amount of Christians.
Yours Staff

will not bow a knee to baal.

my beloved brother Frank, in my spirit i have much to write as led by the Holy Spirit,,but no Release, therefore i still my keyboard..this moment, sending up prayers of encouragment and love to the saints in Atlanta, please give Greg a holy kiss from me, May Brian be given a message from the Throne, and a ministry of weeping, is my prayer, in Jesus Name, amen, in the Love of God the Father and Jesus, our Mediator, i send my love unending, neil

HI Staff, God bless you brother. All I would say that in the last 100 years it is reckoned that at least 200 million people have come to Jesus, starting with the Welsh revival and moving on. Now brother, that's an end time revival would you not agree. Consider the 3000 that were saved in Jerusalem at Pentecost, considered awesome of course. Yet the context is that there was over 1 million people in the city at that time. So I would argue, and you may disagree :) that we have had our last great worldwide revival and that the great apsotacy and the great falling away is what we now live in and the time has come to flee Babylon. Please, if you have not, listen and consider carefully what the speakers of the conference had to say this weekend. It was powerful and I would argue prophetic in nature. Thank you dear brother Neil, we so appreciated your prayers, they were wonderfully answered and the Lord's presence was mighty, mighty brother and of course Brian's word was straight from the throne......... bro Frank