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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Your Thoughts on Terri Schiavo?

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Angyl
Member



Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Your Thoughts on Terri Schiavo?

Wife 'n I are sharply divided over this issue...

Well, she's SHARP...I just disagree with her, and apparently with most of the Christian community on this.

I think we should let the poor woman go. She died a long time ago and just because our technology can keep her body alive doesn't mean we're doing her any favors.

I personally, would be absolutely LIVID with my wife and the world if I were being kept from Heaven in such a state. That's not living, it's being selfishly held on to to meet someone else's needs.

I personally don't have a living will, but I really need to get one since my wife has made it clear she would keep me alive in such a condition despite my wishes. My mother, on the other hand, whom I would give authority to in that situation knows better and would definitely let me go on to be with the Lord.

I must ask Christians who think we should keep this woman alive: Why?

Is this life we live...the vapor, quick and fleeting of it...more specifically Terri's vegetative life better than the world beyond? Do you honestly think that in 1,000 years when we're all in the Millenial Kingdom she's going to care a whit about the five or six days of starvation she had to endure to get out of this world?

NO ONE WHO DIES AND GOES TO HEAVEN WANTS TO COME BACK. It's a BETTER PLACE.

Why, Christian, do you insist on keeping her from it? And don't spout off any heady, high-minded ideals about murder. Abstaining from technology to do what nature deems right and best (that she die), is not murder.

She became a corpse a long time ago...some people just haven't figured it out yet and machines are keeping the body warm. It's not murder. She's already gone.

 2005/2/24 10:38Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: Your Thoughts on Terri Schiavo?

A woman with in the exact same condition who was in a coma longer than Terry just recently woke up from her coma in the St. Louis area.

Terry's condition is different from a vegetative state in that there's still brain wave function, in other words, she's still in there. If that's the case then they don't have the right to end her life. Not if they can save it.

edit: If you're not asking for prayer for her or wanting people to pray for her, that's what I get from the tenor of your post, then why did you post this in the intercession and current events forum?


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/2/24 10:41Profile
Angyl
Member



Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Re:

Let me tell you this:

If I got into an accident and wound up in a vegitative state one of three things could happen:

You could either pull the plug and send me to heaven.

You could leave me in that (wretched) condition for years and years and years and I could wake up and try to rebuild my life.

You could leave me in that (wretched) condition for years and years and years and I could stay that way and die of old age.

Now, out of choice 1, 2, or 3, which is the better option for me?

1. Always 1. For the one miracle case that wakes up after many years of their life shot to heck in a hospital bed, there are dozens...hundreds of others that get stuck in that limbo until they die naturally. That really, REALLY sucks for them. It's not odds, I'd care anyone to play with my life, and not something I'd put anyone else through.

As for the forum I put this in, I'm not sure, I thought this was a "current event" so I put it in the "current events" forum. I didn't know it had to be a current event AND a prayer request to go here. Sorry.

 2005/2/24 10:58Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Hi Angyl,

Quote:
As for the forum I put this in, I'm not sure, I thought this was a "current event" so I put it in the "current events" forum. I didn't know it had to be a current event AND a prayer request to go here. Sorry.



Yeah the title of the forum can be confusing, but it's aim is prayer for current events.

Knowing that you don't want heroic actions taken on yourself to save your life in case you end up in a condition similar to this would make a decision easy if it was [u]you[/u]. But it's not you and there has been no former declaration of such from Terry. But you can't transpose your personal feelings about yourself on other people. We don't all feel the same.

Secondly there is a difference between a vegetative state and a coma. In a vegatative state there is no brain activity. In a coma, and in Terry's case a slight coma because she is partialy conscience and responds to stimuli, there is still much brain activity.

Third, who knows if Terry's a Christian or not? If she's not then when the plug is pulled she's not going to heaven. And if she comes out of it after years and then receives Christ is it worth it?

Finally there is more to the story behind this. Terry's husband eventually took to living with another woman and has had two kids by this woman out of wedlock. When Terry dies he gets a very sizable amount of money from her life insurance, even after the hospital bills. He has an alternate motive in her death.




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Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/2/24 11:25Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Let me tell you this:



Hi Angyl,

From what I know of this dear woman, she does have a limited ability to communicate.

There were some pictures that were shared on this forum by brother Greg and Yodi (I believe) when they went to help some mentally handicapped people in California. They are very moving pictures. They are not as handicapped as the gal in question; but these handicapped kids needed to be fed like little children. I never saw before some of the devices used to help them eat and how it is difficult to keep them eating. They needed assistance and I am quite sure that without help, they would starve to death.

I have spent a number of years with some dear believers in nursing home ministries. I have seen things I would like to forget; I have seen things I will never forget. there is a need with these people. I was with a woman a few weeks ago and prayed with her just before the family 'pulled the plug' on her. I preached her funeral also. What a terrible time. What a sobering time. It is not unusual for folks in ministries such as these to be with people who are dying before your very eyes. Some of them know the Lord; many do not.

I have never been in a situation when I felt it good to pull the plug on a person. It would never enter my mind if they were simply mentally handicapped and could not eat on their own. The love of Christ constraineth me.

Call it humanism if you want. I have a mandate from God to do what I can to help the helpless and minister the Gospel to them. To comfort them as much as I can. This is real Christianity. In as much as you did it unto the least of these my brethren; you have done it unto me. We hear a lot about 'devotions'- yet what did Jesus say? He said; in as much as you have done it unto the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me. That is real devotions. Oh, don't get me wrong I'm all for praying for hours and all that. I'm all for fasting for weeks. Look closely at these verses:

Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33. and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35. for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36. I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37. Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38. And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39. And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40. And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41. Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42. for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43. I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44. Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45. Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46. And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25 RSV)


Do you see this dear lady in this passage? Can she eat on her own? Can she clothe herself? What does she do when she gets thirsty?


Notice in Matthew 25 there is no mention about their devotional time at all. Not how much they prayed or read the bible. Not how much they went to church. The question is laid out before us. What says this passage?

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/2/24 11:36Profile
Angyl
Member



Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Re:

Quote:
But it's not you and there has been no former declaration of such from Terry.


Not according to her husband. No formal declaration, no. That was her mistake.

Quote:
But you can't transpose your personal feelings about yourself on other people. We don't all feel the same.


It is what EVERY single person who is interested in this story is doing, however. Either they are for letting her go (their own personal feelings) or for keeping her alive (again, their own personal feelings).

Quote:
In a vegatative state there is no brain activity. In a coma, and in Terry's case a slight coma because she is partialy conscience and responds to stimuli, there is still much brain activity.


This is where the story takes a twist. I've seen reports from doctors that say just the opposite. "Terry's brain is a black hole" is a quote from one. Reports from the front line on her condition seem mixed. If she were really just simple, but able to react to people, and respond to life in general in any meaningful way, then I wouldn't be so quick to think we should pull the plug, but I'm not at all sure that she is still exhibiting the kind of consciousness you suggest.

Quote:
Finally there is more to the story behind this.


No...there isn't. My wife too tries to lean on Terry's husband and his behavior as part of this tale. He has nothing to do with this. My concern is for that woman and her quality of life (or lack thereof). What her husband does with another woman is a sin or not sin for God to handle on a different vein. What his motives are for wanting to pull the plug aren't relevant either, as far as I'm concerned. He may be, as my wife says "the biggest jerk in the world," but my focus is on Terry. How's HER life? What would SHE want? All we have now is her husband's word (which I trust because it makes sense to me that no one in their right mind would choose this), that Terry made it clear to him on several occasions that she didn't want to ever live in this kind of condition.

And believe me...I [b]AM[/b] in prayer over this situation...

 2005/2/24 11:52Profile





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