Greg...Thnx for the recommendation of Milton Green's book "The Great Falling Away". I'm gonna look for it.

Hi Approved & Fiat,

Regarding free will v. predestination....I love what Charles Spurgeon once said about that debate. He leaned toward the predestination side of the coin and remarked,

"He's the Bridegroom and He has a right to choose His own bride."

That said, the Wesleys leaned more toward free will.

All I can say is...."Did ya ever see a 1-sided coin?"

It's probably one of those awesome mysteries that we can't solve right now...but will be able to see it when we have new eyes. Blessings and Favor.....

hi, i feel that the great falling away stems from fear and error and pride.faith in the finished work of the cross and in Jesus will not fail you. thinking there is going to be a pie in the sky for you so you do not have to see difficulties that might arise ;if wrong, might lead you to dispair and a lack of faith.when you are tought something all of your life and it does not happen the way you have been taught might confuse you into asking the question... well if this is wrong, what else?be ready today and enjoy each moment of life for the joy of the Lord is your strength.He has defeated the enemy already.jimp

Inevitably the differences of those who hold to a reformed theology over those who are Arminian leaning emerge in topics like this. Regardless of view, the narrow path is just that....narrow! I have found a great resistance by many to even consider the numbers associated with that narrowness. With so little discernment within the church, there is no wonder why such a subject is frowned upon when there is any attempt to define the term narrow. It's not good that it is narrow but do not attempt to make it more so. We desire a big narrow not a narrow narrow. So when we hear men who have been recorded here on SI that are grieved because they wished that there were as many as a third, they wished there were a fourth, and some wished it were more than 1% to 2%, we should be as concerned that the broad and wide road to destruction is just as underestimated as the narrow road that leads to life. I'm not a great mathmatician but I do know that there is a great difference between 33.3% and 1%.

I do know the very words of Christ can be misinterpreted by how one holds to the concept of narrowness. Christ loved the rich young ruler but Mammon was his God? The weeds and thorns choke out the seed that is scattered, but it still bears fruit, even though its fruit never matures which renders its fruit inedible. "Ahhhh... but it is fruit never-the-less", one may say. Yes it is, but try eating a Persimmon that is not ripe.

hi, the way is so narrow for it is Jesus and Him crucified. the door to the way is narrow for it is Jesus and Him crucified. no smell of man on that.the rth is Jesus and Him crucified.it is amazing that christianity is all about Jesus and very little about you and i.He has already defeated sin, death,hell and the devil. we need to labor to enter into His rest.cease from self salvation and praise Him for providing an easy yoke...Jesus.jimp

Hey Jimp & Lylewise...thnx for more feedback.

Can we add ANGER & PRESUMPTION to that list of reasons why there is a falling away?

Think how many hundreds of thousands of Christians worldwide in the Prosperity Movement will be enraged when this global economic collapse comes to maturity...and they are left with....not much. No Rolls Royce, no mansion, no Armani suits, no island paradise as promised. They will jump ship just as quickly as they signed on.

I have a dear friend who is waiting for the prosperity that God has "promised" him. If he could only know that his very comfortable middle class life makes him already filthy rich in the eyes of 3rd-world Christians. It would probably do us all good to learn how poor Christians overseas seek SPIRITUAL prosperity v. financial prosperity.

Luke 13:24 (Strive to enter by the narrow door):

ALBERT BARNES: The word strive means to agonize and is taken from the Grecian games where they agonized to win in races, wrestling and various athletic exercises and trained all year long for it. Be diligent, in earnest, active; our 1st and chief business is to overcome our sinful propensities.

JFB: It is a life-and-death struggle.

WEYMOUTH: Strain every nerve to force your way in.

ST. AUGUSTINE: What is it that makes this gate so small to us? It is not that it is strait or narrow in itself, but that we want to take in our pride, our self-will, our darling sins.

hi dottie, i think that it is more our religious ideas that derail us more than the other sinful propensities. that darn tree of the knowlege of good and evil(religion)rather than the Tree of Life(Jesus)surely i must follow some rules so i can have some feeling of accomplishment. anything added to Jesus is leaven.we live in a time where we are more prosperous than kings and Queens of old even if we live in public housing.God hath made us to prosper .jimp

DJ, I must agree with this Augustine fellow. I make difficult this narrow path by all the baggage I check for the journey. May the Spirit teach me the ways of daily death.

Hey Jimp....I'm betting Albert Barnes would agree with you about our religious ideas derailing us. Our having the audacity to create our own religious ideas is sin in itself. Doing that is arrogance, presumption, etc. And religious folks are prone to doing that kind of thing cuz it feels comfortable to our way of thinking and puts us right back to sleep.

And very true about following rules so I can feel good. (Oops...."not of works lest any man should boast"). The wrong kind of works is definitely leaven and to be avoided.

LW...I have to agree that St. Augustine's thoughts do put light on the matter. The difficulties and straitness is not on God's part but on our own. If I'm willing to lay down my self-will and surrender up everything as a bond-servant, then slipping thru that narrow gate shouldn't actually be all that hard.

Suzanna Wesley raised a "boatload" of children and said to her son when asked about the most important thing in raising Godly children:

"See to it that each child is able to surrender their WILL. If they can't surrender their will to you as a loving/guiding/Godly parent, then they will have difficulties surrendering up their will to God."

I was saddened when I read Billy Graham's Association statement that only about 2% of all their converts at crusades continue to follow the Lord. I think the truth of surrendering the WILL probably needs to be explained and understood much better when the altar call is given.

hi, how many people will come forward if the evangelist said in the invitation ... altars are places of sacrifice so i invite you to come and die so that you can be buried with Him into His death so that you then may be risen up to walk in newness of life... His life and His control. about 2% of those who come for a free ride.jimp