i was after thoughts on water baptism.
is it essential for salvation?
if not why
& if so why,
i knows jesus last command was go into all the world & make disciples, baptising so is it & if you havent should you,

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scot

Here is an old thread:
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2596&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]water baptism[/url]

After going around and around in this circle over time, listening to all the arguments from every conceivable angle, think it just boils down to simplicity:

Just do it.

There is hardly much that compares and brings out the tears of joy than to be present when a heart is converted and all that is represented in this symbolism is expressed. A most recent and perfect example was of the privilege to be present for the baptism of a dear, dear soul, such a heart felt expression of love to the Lord, very contrite and humble...Oh did he get it! He so understood... I couldn't but help embrace this 'stranger' as he came up out of the water, for he was not a stranger at all, but a dear brother. Praise God, what a wonderful gift this is!

Here's some pictures of Frank:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myalbum/viewcat.php?op=&cid=245]Church in the Park (jan/05)[/url]

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Mike Balog

I think that baptism is just an outward sign as you would not go to heaven on the strength of water baptism alone but on how you have, in your heart, responded to Jesus. I do think, however, that once you do make a commitment and get born again and start a new life in Christ, that you should get baptised as an outward sign that you belong to Christ as it says you have to repent and be baptised and I think that you would naturally want to be baptised. It doesn't do anything of itself though and if you died and you hadn't got baptised but had been born again then I think you would be saved.

What did Jesus say? What did Jesus do in the Jordan river? What did the apostles tell those who asked, "What shall we do?" ?

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Mark Daniel

ok! We agree that water baptism is right. However does it say that who ever is being put under the water should be fully submurged? I believe yes! However is it scriptual? or just a ritual!

The greek meaning of the word baptise is 'to dip' whether that means totally or partially I don't know! Wow I sound really intelligent now! But actually I just looked in the dictionary. Although when it talks about John baptising people in the river jordan I am sure that if they bothered to go into the river in the first place there wouldn't be much point in not going totally under. Also, since it is a picture of total death of the old man then I guess total submersion would be the only appropriate outward sign. Actually, I don't really know what I am going on about so I think I will leave this for other people who know better about these things.
8-)

Thanks Clueless! Yeah i think i will wait for someone who knows what they are on about!
:-P :-P :-P :-P :-P
No not really i agree with you and believe also in the the picture of life and death!!! That is really useful about the greek so thank you! ;-) :-)

Baptism is NOT essential for salvation...

However... salvation is essential for baptism.

Those who believe that you are not completely saved until you are baptised are teaching salvation by works. We are saved by faith alone... period. End of story.

Baptism has always been considered (by Bible believing Christians) a sign of dying to your old life and being resurrected into your new life as a believer in Christ. It is a symbol of being cleansed. Thats all it is.

Baptismal Regeneration is a Catholic heresy, and has no basis in the Bible. There isnt anything magical or mystical that happens when your baptised... however, spiritually speaking it is a real blessing.

As for dipping, sprinling, etc... as long as a new believer doesnt have some sort of physical disability, I personally believe in complete submersion. Thats what the Lord did (he came up out of the water), and there is no reason why we should not follow in His example. I'd say there are a lot of reasons why we should follow His example... in everything.

Krispy

Scripture tells us that they settled on a place in the Jordan because the water there was deeper - that is only going to be a 'plus' if you baptise according to immersion.

The word was used secularly to describe the use of fishing nets, and the making of pickles. You could hardly catch any fish by sprinking water on your net - likewise, you could hardly pickle a cucumber by sprinkling it with vinegar.

Immersion is the most logical, biblical method.

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Daniel van de Laar

> Is it essential for salvation?

Was the theif on the cross baptised? No.

Was he saved? Yes.

Would he have been baptised if it had been possible - Definitely.

Some might argue that the theif was saved under the old covenant - but they forget that anyone who hung on a peice of wood was accursed according to Jewish law. He was certainly not saved under the old system - which means that salvation precedes baptism.

I would seriously question the authenticity of any faith that refused to obediently follow Christ in baptism - but if one was to ask dogmatically is baptism a part of salvation I would remind them of what Paul said in 1 Cor 1:17 - "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." A statement that would have no meaning if the baptism were part of the salvation plan.

Scripture demonstrates that those who received the Spirit were baptized - that is, those whom God regenerated and gave the "seal/down payment/guarentee" that they were His children - these were baptized.

Baptism was an act of obedience - a public profession of faith - a symbolic representation of the dying and being raised with Christ - not some magic hoodoo that gives you the Spirit. Scripture makes a point to demonstrate that the Spirit always preceded the baptism.

Dan

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Daniel van de Laar