Skeptic, God's nature and attributes are unchangeabe. how He demonstrates these characteristics are always consistent with His character, but as there are many gifts and one Spirit, He can determine to express His interventions in ways beyond signs and wonders.

Brother Tom, I read you post again and I am sorry if I implied in any way I was questioning you or anything about you personally. I was only speaking to the statement I quoted.
The baby with the bath water analogy meant this. In a sincere attempt to support the continuation of God's expression through signs and wonders, while throwing out the bath water of "no miracles", be careful not to throw out the baby: God's soveriegnty.

So are we saying that cessation is not a New Testament doctrine? I must admit I am hard pressed to find scriptural proof for such a position. Though some would say John MaCArthur argues for such a position.

At this point I am somewhat puzzled. Any speaking of signs and wonders. It is said to be of Satan. Ir so it would seem. Yet it seems that one does not want to say that miracles have ceased. So what are we left with?

Bearmaster.

"Brother Tom, I read you post again and I am sorry if I implied in any way I was questioning you or anything about you personally. I was only speaking to the statement I quoted.
The baby with the bath water analogy meant this. In a sincere attempt to support the continuation of God's expression through signs and wonders, while throwing out the bath water of "no miracles", be careful not to throw out the baby: God'sovereignty."..LeePadah

Amen:...Brothertom

We must admit that the church itself has seen very, very little of authentic prophetic power, as a whole. I think of the Children of Israel in captivity in Egypt. For 430 years they multiplied in Goshen, with a seemingly redundant lifestyle, with no recorded witness of God's active Sovereignty..not one.
[ which I see now LeePadah that this may be your point....God shows himself in the Miraculous when He wants to...]

And...then one day Moses rose up, and killed a man...and fled to the desert, where he married a black woman, and started over....until that day the Burning Bush spoke to Him.

Suddenly! after all of those centuries....God revealed Himself....and then the most Amazing flood of miracles rained down on those Jews....the 10 plagues, and then the parting of the Red Sea,and the Cloud and the Pillar, where Jesus Himself shone through, the Manna, the Thundering Audible word, God writing on the tablets, on and on and on...

I see a bit of that a hundred years ago, after Azusa; particularly with John G. Lake, Dowie, and some instances with some Pentecostal pioneers, and then again in the healing revivals of the late 40s, and Wlm. Branaham, and the 200 or so healing Evangelists of the day......and that was 60 years ago......Oral Roberts and the such.[ Almost all of them fell, in one way or another...]

But...what about us? No, there is very little witness of true Apostolic power here in America, or really anywhere...but there is some....like a thin rain with sparse drops. I think there is a great danger to exalt the signs and wonders above the Giver, and to seek them, as people seek after prophets; to sensualize their faith, to dwell in the fires of excitement.

We see this cultural manifestation in our Pentecostal/Apostolic churches today; the Whoop! The Dance! The screaming in tongues....They are just trying to actualize an experience as authentic, and in doing so in action, they fortify their endorsement of themselves, and others as genuine.

[If they really knew how much it fortified their DISENGUINEITY they would possibly refrain..]

I have seen drops of the real, and buckets of pretenders, but part of this I suspect, is because we are in transition; I believe we are coming into the 2nd great Re-formation.....A New Wineskin to hold the greatest Glory the Church has ever seen....and it will be unto the very least of the Brethren...and Free.....and the current Priest/Pastor Class as dominators over these least will come to an end, and true shepherds will arise to feed and protect the body.

When this body does come together, and she will, in equality and Love, and unity of spirit, we will again see her flowing together as she did in the first century book of Acts Miracle and Healing Power.

hi, i have a dear christian friend who i have seen become a millionaire... he gives like a billionaire because he knows where it came from... he had 50 houses built from slidell la. to mandeville. some he had as rentals and others new and for sale and katrina was coming. as he and his son prayed the night trough katrina center hit hard in slidell... after the trees were cleared and roads open he went to inspect the damage... not one dollar of damage to any of his homes... homes on the same street with roofs off and trees falling on the houses some flooded... he also had a plane moored in a hanger at the slidell airport... the hanger was blown away and the door of the hanger was 100 feet away and the plane was sitting where moored with no damage. i can write many many testimonies of miracles i have seen in my life for we serve a miracle working God. when i was a missionary isaw some things you would not believe.jimp

At this point I am somewhat puzzled. Any speaking of signs and wonders. It is said to be of Satan. Ir so it would seem. Yet it seems that one does not want to say that miracles have ceased. So what are we left with?

Bearmaster.

__________________

bearmaster I am just wondering who has said this to you? Who has said that "any" signs and wonders are to be of satan?

Was there someone here on the forum who said these words or was this in the real world that this was said to you?

Perhaps it would help for you explain what your definition of each of these terms is, miracles? gifts of the Holy Spirit? Signs and wonders?

The enemy can mimic but in doing so his aim is always the same to draw us away from GOD. This is where discernment comes in.

was a bit confused by this last post of yours....

God bless
maryjane

And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?

We do not see miracles because we are faithless, Oh how much more faithless we are, than was Jesus disciples of whom he spoke this.
With our modern Science and our Education our university our academic worship our archaeology our commentaries our Systematic theology our Modern Medicine their is no room left for a miracle to happen. Trully Our Carnal Fleshly Earthly Rational (SARX) mind is enmity with God, it is bound by its naturalistic observations and limits reality to its natural understandings,It does not even believe the Bible, The modern professing christian (SARX) mind even adopts The Cessations Benjamin Breckinridge Warfields understanding of the nature of scripture rather than simply Believing the nature of scripture as scripture teaches of its self.

Jesus Rebuked those Of his day time and time again. for there lack of faith.

The entire Bible can be summed up from Gensis to Rev. by the theme, Believe trust have faith in what God says over what your sight your circumstance your rational mind see's
,thinks and believes it knows.

Brother your post has answered my question.

Bearmaster standing down.

I am pretty settled in my mind and heart on the issue and will leave this thread. But Skeptic, I have a question for you. Are you settled in your soul about your standing before God?. Are you sure of your salvation? Do you know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

You have been trolling around this web site for quite some time. We do get into disagreements and arguments and they get heated. But the one thing we do agree on is you must be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. On that one issue there is agreement.

Have you ever called out to him? My friend God will call you to account for your sins. They have been paid for at the cross. Have you come to believe in the Lamb to take sway your sin.

On this one issue there is no debate. This is your soul. You take the name of Skeptic. Their comes a point when you got to believe. I would urge you to read the Gospel of John. Suspend your skepticism. Ask God to show you who Jesus is. And see him unfold in the pages of his word.

Jesus died for your sins. But it remains up to you to believe. I pray you find saving faith in Jesus.

Bearnaster.