If miracles have ceased, so has God; for it would imply that somehow He lost His power, and His desire to affect the affairs of men. Of course, He has not.

Often, unspiritual men filled with unbelief have warred against Spirit Filled faith, for in admitting the reality of it, condemns their own lack of power, and relationship with God, and they must kill it, or lose their standing as men of authority.

"Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, “What are we doing? For this man is performing many miracles.

" If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”....

.....and so it goes today with those without power, or those who despise those who have it.

This is my testimony about an event that happened in my life.

"Miracles have not ceased."
"We need to make sure that we tell the difference between the real and the fake is all." EverestOSama

What greatness matters?
CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST YET ALIVE, YET NOT I!

I think the greatness of the man must always begin and end here; Preaching or leading or ministry of any kind, is simply Christ imparted, and that is impossible without living a crucified life; It is the only life that exudes true holy power.

This scripture below describes the Apostolic command received, and shows what an Apostolic Preacher really does. It seems to be a far cry from what the more modern, pulpit based preachers of the this age do.

"And as ye go, PREACH!, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

True great preaching is always accompanied by true and undeniable power; in the New Testament, they are inseparable, dynamic, and apparent. The local assemblies seem to abide in this consciousness as the norm.

In 1996 I travelled to India with a 5 man team doing platform evangelism, with crowds of 1500-5000 all across the south of that country. It was a lot of fun, along with the usual warfare, and we were victorious wherever we went.

After the preaching, we had great buckets of olive oil, and we sloshed our arms and hands in it,and we travelled into the crowds and laid hands for healing on whoever wanted it. These were always the poorest of people, and they received and believed us.

Here, I experienced "the press", where people would literally mob you, and carry you along to the left or the right. You just had to go with the flow. and also witnessed the demon possessed, the lepers, and the weirdest diseases I could imagine. We preached, then prayed according to the above command, and saw limited success. We had some power.

Because of our associations with some more famous organizations, I was allowed to attend a huge Reinhard Bonnke Meeting at the old Polo Grounds at Madras, and sit on the stage about six feet away from where Bonnke preached. The crowds were without number to me; maybe a quarter million, maybe more, but I could not see the end of it; a literal sea of people, and the ladies there in there most colorful dress.

Bonnke preached a Gospel message of God's grace and love. It did not seem to me, particularly, in style at least, powerful or interesting. But I got the unexpected; God came down and showed Himself.

I saw from afar a "splash" of activity and heard some shouting and laughter, and then saw a small round object being passed up above the heads of the crowd....from perhaps 1000 yard back. As it drew closer, you could see that a young girl was sitting in it. Nobody knew what had happened to her, until she came up front to the stage.

She was born lame, and her legs never developed. They literally looked like skeleton legs, with massive bony knee-bones. She had never walked one step in her life, and the basket was her vehicle, as someone carried her on their back, wherever she went.

While sitting in this crowd, with her family , she felt tingling and an electric feeling, where their was none before. she could move her feet.

She was about 12, I suppose, and very beautiful, and somewhat glorified with joy. Bonnke greeted her in English; "Come on up here honey!", and grabbed her by the hand, and pulled her up on the stage. She then took her first step, but she walked like a spider, crooked and wobbly. The entire crowd was speechless; stunned and awed.

Bonnke had been here before, and knew what to do. It was like the second prayer of Jesus when the blind man saw blurry. He knew he must pray again, and I think that Jesus had it planned this way, to show to all His limitless power. Bonnke commanded everyone to close their eyes...a form of focusing on Jesus I think...and prayed a very simple prayer for a complete healing.

I did not close my eyes. I wanted to watch this one. After he prayed, more glory appeared on this girls face, while Bonnke began to dance with her, spontaneously, and with one hand led her skipping around the stage, and she began to leap with Gazelle like strides. She reminded me of the famous Russian Ballet...long, leaping strides, with perfect balance and grace.

Then, the second act of God. While hundreds and thousands watched, the Lord formed perfect legs on her, with strong muscle mass, like the legs and feet of a female athlete. It was then that everyone really broke out in WONDER! I watched this event, and could not believe it. Something impossible happened while i watched, and my faith refused to catch up with my mind. I had just witnessed a true Creative miracle up close, and did not believe it. I was shocked.

Bonnke knew when to strike. He immediately called for heads bowed, and prayer, and that all who wanted to serve this Jesus, God almighty, to come forward and believe! At least 5000 came rushing up, terrified and joyful, to receive Jesus. He had teams waiting to see them, instructing them, and assuring future contact to see them established in the local church.

Bonnke was whisked away, for many Hindu's wanted him dead.
I remained for the "After-glow", and was allowed by the Lord to pray and preach for everyone who needed it; about 1500 people, until 3 or 4 AM. It was a lot of fun.

One other foot note: I hesitated to share this, but I will.

When this young girl; was healed, I was very close to her. I saw an orb, Like a halo but in another dimension. I saw around her face, a MAN....with a beard and Jewish features. I saw the resurrected Lamb of God around her being. Quite a day for me.

Jesus is the healer, and it is He who is great. Fame has nothing to do with "great" preaching. It has everything to do with Him being exalted within you to give life to who He chooses. Most of these men will be obscure, and hidden, and will defer greatness like the plague.

Also, just because God uses you greatly, does not mean He always will. I have seen "great" men fall away, or become so absorbed with themselves that they lose the only "greatness" that MATTERS.

"Power belongs unto God.
_________________
ALL FOR JESUS NO MATTER THE COST..Tom Watkins

by SkepticGuy on 2012/8/21 10:21:27

To his credit, I believe John McArthur is a man of God and a good Bible teacher. However I cannot agree with his cessationalist views. I don't think McArthur believes that miracles do not happen anymore. I think he believes that God does not perform miracles through men as we see happening in the book of Acts and that men no longer operate in supernatural ways through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Someone can correct me if I have that wrong, but that is the idea that I have gotten as i have listened to him.

Mary Jane said there is a difference between miracles and the gifts of the Spirit. I think that is a good point, except I would make the distinction between miracles that man is not involved in and miracles that are accomplished by God's power working through man. I think that is where McArthur might draw the distinction, or at least it seems so to me.

In my experience the cessationalist view hangs, primarily, on a few verses in 1 Cor. 13 and the assumption that the "that which is perfect" refers to the completed canon of scripture. I think this topic was discussed recently on another thread entitled "why the need for prophets".

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=46166&forum=36&39

_________________
Travis

I think most Christians today would say that they believe God still does miracles.

However, I am not sure if most Christians today REALLY AND TRULY BELIEVE that God still does miracles.

Or, as Andrew Wommack likes to say, many Christians believe that God can do anything, but that He just doesn't do very much.

_________________
Todd

Have miracles ceased?

Just try stopping them - you'll find out.

Yes, I believe in ALL of the gifts and would like to explain why I posted what I did on Bear's other thread ... where I said that I can handle him not believing in prophets, etc......

Just try stopping the gifts or callings too. :)

I think if these cesstationists hang-out long enough on earth - they'll change their views.

My point in 'excepting' Bear's view on that one page or post was, regardless who the person is - someday, as GOD wills it, a prophet will come up to them and tell them things that will convince them that there is such a calling and if someone is truly hearing from GOD as one of His Sheep, the other gifts and callings will become evident to them as they're manifested and even the more so in the days to come .....

so, I don't worry too much about true sheep thinking that these gifts and callings are not existing because I'm confident that HE will change their minds in the not too distant future - if they have the ears to hear - which I believe many do.


SHALOM!

Brother Tom, you said "If miracles have ceased, so has God; for it would imply that somehow He lost His power, and His desire to affect the affairs of men. Of course, He has not. "
I don't believe miracles have ceased, but I do want to point out some concerns I have with this statement.
You say if miracles have ceased, so has God.....the reason you give is this would mean He has lost His power, or His desire to affect men....
This statement implies that God must act in this way, or He either no longer exists or does not care. If God were to choose, in His sovereign wisdom, to not intervene in my life in a "miraculous" way for any given period of time, and He determined to effect my life in ways that did not include signs and miracles, this would in no way imply He did not care, or that He was powerless, nor that he no longer existed. Jesus warns us not to seek for a sign.
Our hope is built on nothing less than Jesus's blood and righteousness.
Sometimes when we are making a valid point, we are too far reaching in our argument. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

"Sometimes when we are making a valid point, we are too far reaching in our argument. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.".LeePadah.

I think you prove your point. In the grand scheme of things, God has always revealed Himself to men, and by the Nature of WHO HE IS; a supernatural God, He is by nature miraculous.

I was speaking in general terms to the "Cessationists" primarily when I said:
"If miracles have ceased, so has God; for it would imply that somehow He lost His power, and His desire to affect the affairs of men. Of course, He has not."

I was countering a general idea that God no longer acts in the affairs of men in Supernatural ways, or as many believe, even the supernatural gifts given to men; hence the title of this thread; "Have Miracles Ceased?".

I might add that one of the supernatural gifts of grace given to members of the body; "the "gift of healing" and miracles.

You applied it to the personal walk of the believer as to even seek for a sign?...and in the logical dissecting of something rather simple, implied that I was boxing in God Himself. This is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" as I see it, and intellectual juxtapositioning that by slicing and dicing something direct, turns it into an opinionated maze.

A Spirit entered my body. It is a Spirit of a God, even the Creator God. At the moment this Personality entered me, I was aware of His Nature. I experienced the working of this personality, as I directly experienced every sin, and sorrow, and unclean flood out of me, as He entered into me. I spoke with other tongues.

I led many people to faith in this God who lived inside of me. I have seen Him work outside of me, and yes, heal, and do miracles...for me and for others. Because He lives in me, I am aware of His creative miracles constantly; and witness the reality of the more dramatic ones from time to time; such as casting out of demons, and healings, and now and then, creative miracles like in Madras.

I hear Him speak to me, somewhat, every day I live, and have heard Him audibly, and even seen Him...Yes; the truly miraculous is rare, but it occurs, and I do not seek the sign, but it tends to follow the Gospel, and Gospel people, as we live it....IF....you have truly been born from above, the second time.

The greatest Miracle is that we have been born Again. "Christ in us; the Hope of Glory."

leepadah, ur saying that God controls and orchestrates our lives? and mite even do so by choosing not to perform miracles? so is it possible he has also chosen not to do miracles like he did in bible times? if God is all powerful & all knowing etc etc etc then he is powerful enuf 2 not do things the same way right? logic messes w/all of this. God is in control but he can never change? that makes no sense. 1 who can never change is not in control 4 very long.

What I was trying to convey was that God, in His sovereign loving wisdom, can act in any way He chooses. To say that miracles (speaking in terms of the signs and miracles of the NT) have not ceased is a true statement. But To say God must act in that way or He is not God or He does not care is too far reaching.