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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why the need for prophets?

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 Why the need for prophets?

Heh 1::1 says God spoke through the prophets in times past. Today in the New Covenant God is speaking through his Son Jesus. That revelation is contained in the New Testament. So why do we need prophets today?

Posted by Bearmaster.

 2012/8/9 12:30









 Re: Why the need for prophets?

Oh! Dear Saints,

I am not sure if this question is raised in objection to the prophet's ministry today, or in support of; but I can't help but respond briefly.

The apostle Paul makes abundantly clear that all of the ministry gifts will continue "until we all come to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto the perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph. 4:13).

Whether we employ them or not is up to us, unfortunately. The prophetic gift is essential for various things, just as the other ministry calls are; but one of the most outstanding things is that God will often us the prophet to speak a "now word," to the body - whether it has to do with future events, or a present-hour need for the body. The pastor/teacher (whether one or two people) will teach through the scripture, and the prophet will certainly use the scripture too, but more than that, he will also hear from God and share with the body those things God wants to speak to His people in the immediate hour. And of course, whatever he speaks should be confirmed (have a witness spiritually) by others with the ministry gifts before it is actually accepted by the whole body.


When our Lord was hear teaching, He would sometimes say, "He who has ears to hears, listen." When He went away He said the Spirit would both hear from the Father and speak what He says, teaching us and guiding us into all truth (John 16:7-15).

After our Lord ascended to heaven, He spoke back to the apostle John who was suffering on the Isle of Patmos for Christ's namesake. To each of the seven churches that He spoke to through John (who was acting in the prophets gift), our Lord said: "He who has ears to hear, listen to what the SPIRIT IS SAYING to the churches" (Rev. 2-3)

Notwithstanding the validity of the gift, it has been abused, misused and maligned like all other gifts; but that doesn't mean that God does not still give it, or that we should avoid exercising it if we have it.

I am very thankful that He has given me that gift to operate under His direction on many occasions. At the same time, I accept and operate in that gift with great humility and care - knowing that when we claim to actually speak in God's behalf in that way we are taking on a great responsibility that may possibly have great consequences.

I hope this has shed a little light on the subject for you, brother.

 2012/8/9 14:55
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Why the need for prophets?

The primary thrust of the book of Hebrews is to establish to the Hebrew church, who had all of their lives lived under the old covenant, the superiority of the new covenant. Hence the opening words of the letter. This is not a commentary on the validity or non-validity of the new covenant ministry gift of the prophet.

Paul, in Ephesians 4, points to five ascention gifts that were given, by Christ, to the church upon His return to the Father. (Some see pastor / teacher as one gift and say there are four gifts. Maybe so.) During Paul's ministry we see that prophets were very active in the church. Recall Agabus for one. Judas and Silas were prophets.

All five (or four) of these gifts working in the church are necessary if the body is to come into full maturity. These gifts are given to the body.

The prophet, specifically, can sometimes foretell future events just as Agabus foretold Paul's arrest. Prophets also speak forth the word of the Lord in an authority and timeliness that is, I think, unique to the gift of the prophet. God may also deal with a prophet about things that are out of order in the body.

I understand that there are those who would deny the gift of prophet and of apostle in the body today. I think it is interesting that the gift of pastor is mentioned once in the entirety of the New Testament (shepherd a few times but only by somewhat shaky inference referring to a pastor), yet most every church has a pastor. The prophet is mentioned clearly as a New Testament reality several times in the book of Acts, yet we rarely hear of a man being a prophet.

There are many abuses of spiritual authority by men and women who are in the church world. Prophet so-and-so or Apostle so-and-so for titles sake is prevalent. But then again, pastor or reverend so-and-so is often wearing the title for the sake of notoriety, power, and money as well. But the abuse does not negate the valid and genuine. The proper order for the maturing of the body is to have these gifts actively ministering to the body so that the body can be fully equipped to minister.


_________________
Travis

 2012/8/12 16:45Profile









 Re: Is the New Testanent not Sufficient Revelation?

But Hebrews 1:1 does say that God spoke to the forefathers through the prophets. This would be under the Old Covenant. Today we have God speaking to us by his Son Jesus. His words are found in the New Testament. Found in the four gospels and the writers such as the Apostles who wrote under the Holy Spirit.

We have the Holy pirit who brings his prophetic scriptures to life in our soul. So I ask with the revelation of the New Testament and the Holy Spirit. That is we have been given the prophetic word. Why do we need prophets?

If anything Jesus warns us in Mat. 24 that false prophets will come and do signs and wonders to deceive the elect if it were possible. So how do we test false prophets? Is it not through the prophetic scripture itself?

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/12 17:06









 Re:

I am aware he church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. But in light of the New Testament revelation made available. Do those offices still continue today. Eph. 4 says it is a foundation suggesting that we believers are being added as living stones. In other words the foundation was established in the first century when the church was being formed. But now God gas given all believers the Holy Spirit and the New Testament. Also all believers have access to God.

I suppose in some sense that apostle and prophet continue as believers go forth and declare God's truth through the scriptures. But I am coming to the conclusion that first century prophets are not operating in the twenty first century church. Even in the 1040 window where the Spirit moves more freely. The emphasis is more on the prophetic word of scripture. The gift of prophet does nit seem to operate in these churches.

Just my thoughts. Still fleshing this out.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/12 17:20









 Re:

I understand your frustration, Bearmaster.

It's no secret who "Proclaimit" is, as it's in his signature. When his message was the Featured Sermon of that month, that message was very good and for one of the few times that I mentioned to Greg, it surely was a good word.

As far as "forum prophets" - as they say in NY - fahgedaboutit. If there comes a genuine prophet - they'll be shut down by the prophet wannabes every time.
I mention brother Proclaimit because if he hadn't put his name in his signature, his words would be shot down eventually as well.

But I find that it's all the more true, when anyone does actually give a future tense word or a word that touches on eschatology.

I 'tried' on Mr. amrkelly's thread to say that the Whole Body of Christ has the advantage of John 16:13 etc - on his thread on the Article section on page 3 but what I wrote was shot down as well.
That thread also says that only men can be blessed with one of the 5 callings of Eph 4. Someone should have told Deborah that.

I understand your frustration Brother. Very much so - but in a Good Church assembly - face to face with a good Pastor - GOD does use prophets in the Body -- it's just on the internet - it can't happen and the ones that I've seen that have their own websites and call themselves "prophets" are nothing more than hirelings or prophet wannabes.

Jesus warned us that this would happen in these last days - but in a good fellowship, with good elders and all - a prophet can help turn the whole spirit of that Church around and a good Pastor will appreciate that help from above, even if comes from a prophetess that knows her Scriptural place as a woman.

The 5 callings of Eph 4 do still exist, Brother Bear --- but we see it more in Biblical assemblies/fellowships of the Saints together - face to face and protected by good men of GOD. Not in the 'free-for-all' atmosphere of internet websites and forums.


Shalom, Brother.

 2012/8/12 17:37
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Whenever I see this topic/subject brought up anywhere it makes me grimace. I say this because I those who believe in Prophets yet produce not evidence. With the various churches I have attended the only group that supports and lifts up prophets are the Charismatics because it gives an extra authority to the 'church' yet many of these 'prophets' aren't prophets and they aren't even watchmen.

I have stated on the forum that I don't believe prophets exist today though I believe watchmen exist. By my saying that it seems that maybe I don't 'believe the Word of God'. Well, for me, I am a Thomas in this regard. Point a prophet to me today and I will acknowledge that at least a Prophet exists today. Up until I find just alot of talk except in the Charismatic church and I don't believe them just because of their character.

John


_________________
John

 2012/8/12 17:38Profile









 Re:

John, you've been where I was. Yes, some no-longer-there websites will do that to you.

Just wanted to say, that there are conservative Presbyterian churches that believe in the calling or the gift of prophecy. The calling and the gift are not the same thing - but it's not just Charismatics that believe they and it exist. But with these conservative Presby churches - there's a bit more discernment and testing, "according to The Word."

Peace, Brother.

 2012/8/12 17:45
4gvn-or-4gtn
Member



Joined: 2012/6/29
Posts: 52


 Re: Why the need for prophets?

In the book of Ephesians 4:11 the KJV reads....
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"


The saints are not perfect and the ministry still needs work so prophets are still needed...

 2012/8/12 18:03Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

There is a gift of prophecy and then there is the Prophet. It is the Prophet that I am in dismay over.


_________________
John

 2012/8/12 18:42Profile





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