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Thank you for your reply, Paul. I do understand the battle of flesh and spirit mentioned in Gal 5 and Rom 8 but in context of 2Corth 10, the whole of that chpt is Paul needing to defend his ministry.

I'm looking for scripture that proves out your belief in sin becoming a "stronghold" and where the person has a "strongman" and that "once he is in, however, they need deliverance."

Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.

 2012/7/27 21:24

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.

Dear friend, I'm sorry you are not able to see this, and I'm sorry your heart is breaking. I can't provide you with a verse on the surface that explains on your terms what you are looking for. There are verses denoting "besetting sins" and "roots of bitterness", though I understand and acknowledge that these may not satisfy you.

It only means this is for someone else right now, and not you.

God bless,

Brother Paul

Paul Frederick West

 2012/7/27 21:43Profile


I have a reason for asking, Brother Paul. I do know the verse about "a root of bitterness" but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? I typed it into a KJV search and it's not coming up.

Maybe, if I post to you what I had asked another member, you could also answer this for me...

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Would you say that this person was at one time saved but now is not, if they die in this condition? Or were they never saved? The word "recover" is why I'm asking.

 2012/7/27 21:52

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


RE:// but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? //

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily ((beset)) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

 2012/7/27 21:58Profile

Joined: 2011/7/12
Posts: 83

 Re:" I am looking for a Scripture....."

For many years I have felt led to pray for revival in our community-my wife and myself also minister to people to whom the Lord leads us who may not necessarily come from pretty situations. We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property which we share very little about to others because we would be considered insane if we would. If we leave the comfortable confines of religious mediocracy and immerse ourselves into the battle for God's Kingdom, I believe that we can expect to stir up an enraged "waspsnest" in the kingdom of darkness because we pose a threat to their dominion. There is no trite theological formula for every situation that we are confronted with-as was the case with Job or Daniel; we cannot see what is taking place in the spiritual realm, even though we may feel its reverbations. That is when we need to take on the armour of prayer and come to the God Who is sufficient for all things to seek specific direction and Divine protection. If we have never endured the fierce heat of the battle it can be all too easy to have neat "Biblical" theories about spiritual warfare. The Spirit never leads us contrary to the Word but we need His direct leading with the Word.

 2012/7/27 22:12Profile


Thank you, PaPa. I'm fitting puzzle pieces together and appreciate your help!

Robertson's [Greek]: "The sin which doth so easily beset us (te¯n euperistaton hamartian). “The easily besetting sin.” There are a dozen possible renderings of this double compound verbal from eu, well, and periiste¯mi, to place around or to stand around (intransitive). The Vulgate has circumstans nos peccatum (the sin standing around us). Probably this is the true idea here, “the easily encompassing (or surrounding) sin.” In this case apostasy from Christ was that sin. In our cases it may be some other sin. The verbal adjective reminds one of the ring of wild beasts in the jungle that encircle the camp-fire at night each ready to pounce upon a careless victim."

Vincent's [Greek] - "And the sin which doth so easily beset (καὶ τὴν ευπερίστατον αμαρτίαν)
Καὶ adds to the general encumbrance a specific encumbrance or hindrance. Ευπερίστατος N.T.o , olxx, oClass. From ευ readily, deftly, cleverly, and περιΐ̀στασθαι to place itself round. Hence, of a sin which readily or easily encircles and entangles the Christian runner, like a long, loose robe clinging to his limbs. Beset is a good rendering, meaning to surround. In earlier English especially of surrounding crowns, etc., with jewels.
The sin may be any evil propensity. The sin of unbelief naturally suggests itself here."

 2012/7/27 22:39


Brother beekpr - I went off this site to get away to pray but couldn't shake the burden I feel to speak to you. Please understand that I don't desire to upset you in any way whatsoever and that is why I hesitated to post this to you.

You and your wife need to learn your Authority in Christ.

I've dealt with multiple cases of demon possessed people and I will tell you why The LORD allowed that to be a part of my life .... so that I would learn what power demons DON'T have over a blood-washed and bought Saint, that is in His Will.

They have No Power but what we imagine they have or yeild/give them - unless we are in rebellion of any kind.

IF the enemy knows that you don't Fully know who you are in Christ - he'll gainsay over you as you've described.

I've had demons come at me from every angle that one can name and as I learned "through Scripture" where I stand in Christ and where they stand with Christ - I finally came to realize that if the Apostles didn't have these types of phenomena - then neither should we.

The enemy loves to spook people that go outside of Scripture, as far as giving the enemy more authority than what he has - and The LORD will allow it, until we go to His Word and learn from the prophets and the apostles what the enemy can and can't do.

The "neat Biblical theories" work - If they are indeed "Biblical" - but many people go beyond what is written and are personally attacked and GOD allows it, because they have believed "a lie" Beyond "what is written".

You have to get to the point that you only depend on His Word and the experiences of the Saints 'in The Word'.

Pride of one's ministry will open the door to these types of phenomena and also ignorance of our authority in Christ Jesus, From The Word of GOD alone.

Show me where in The WORD of GOD that any of these occurences have happened to those that posed the Greatest Danger to Satan's Kingdom - starting from the book of Acts on - or anywhere else that you choose to start... ""We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property""

What I did in my early years [very early 80's] of dealing with this type of phenomena, because of the ministry I had been called to, was to hand-write into a notebook, all the verses that proclaim who we are In Christ.

'Any' phenomena that is not found happening to a Saint in The Word of GOD, is a phenomena that we should 'instantly' reject. Resist and it will flee because the enemy has no grounds to these areas you've noted - but if we believe the lie from him or self, that he does have this authority or have ground or authority to these areas of our lives, he'll play havoc and all the more as we enter into the last days.

Why we're not to go beyond what is written.

His Peace to you and yours and my prayers!

 2012/7/27 23:29

 Re: can the devil make your heart extremely pained

Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it?

Sounds like a burden of the Lord more than something from the devil.

It would be nice if you could explain what your feeling.

Does this spiritual pain 'feel' overwhelming, are you easily moved to tears when you talk about the Lord? Do you have an urgent need to pray? If you have any of these, I'd say it's what we call a burden of the Lord.

I've had them before but not often. The last one was during 9/11 and I had no idea what was transpiring in New York City at the time until afterward but I felt this overwhelming need to pray and to weep. I had another one a few years prior to that and It 'felt' like a heavy blanket was on me and I knew the presence of God was around me and anyone that came into that radius felt something and the conversation changed to a holiness which I can't explain not even to this day. Sometimes you can pray when that happens other times you just have to wait it out and allow the Lord to do what He desires to do with you.

There is another explanation and has nothing to do with the devil.

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

 2012/7/28 1:33

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


Initially I thought it was God but now I'm not so sure, so would want to know whether the devil can do it so that I know better how to approach the situation in which I'm facing.

Dear friend, I am sorry about the distress you are enduring. I wish we could have a real visit – a time of sharing and reflection and encouragement. Pain is a horrible thing. Being alone in it, and misunderstood can merely intensify one’s suffering. That reminds me of Job. His friends believed they understood the cause of his pain: his sin. That influenced them to point accusing fingers at Job – which merely made the suffering worse. Job is our prime example of Satan himself being the inflictor of pain. Yet Job had little concept of Satan. No wonder never considered the devil. God never clarified that with Job later. Obviously Job did not need to know. That was irrelevant to the outcome – which was this: Through his suffering Job learned something significant about himself and about God. It’s similar to what John the Baptist came to learn: “He [Christ] must increase, I must decrease”. Through Job’s suffering he acquired a far grander view of God – and we can be sure that his faith became stronger. And that is what mattered.

That reminds me of the blind man in the gospel account. Some people were (seemingly) trying to get at the root of this problem, so they asked Jesus: “Jesus, who sinned this man or his parents?” The answer to that question was irrelevant. What was important was that God would be glorified through this blindness. And that’s just what happened when Jesus restored his sight.

Likewise, in your case, my friend. Through whatever is happening in your life, may God work in such a way that you come to enjoy a far grander sense of God; and may he be glorified through it all.



 2012/7/28 7:17Profile

Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


Thank you all.

Paul West--I'm going to send you an email for the manuscript. Thanks for the kind offer.

JIG-Thanks for your prayer and kind words.

I have only read some posts here. Will need to read and meditate/ponder on the posts for a while to see how/what I need to do before posting. Pray for strength and that I will look unto Jesus-the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)


 2012/7/28 9:47Profile

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