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SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 244
NSW Australia

 Sundar Singh on western Christians

west
Christian: Haven’t you visited America and western
Europe? What did you think of our Christian witness
and heritage?
Sadhu: What homesickness I had in Europe! I felt
like a bird in a cage. The whole atmosphere was heavy
for me. Many people thought I suffered from the
cold climate, but this was not so. I have experienced
far greater cold in the Himalayas. It was not the physical
atmosphere that oppressed me, but the spiritual
atmosphere.
In India, one feels everywhere – even through
idols and altars, pilgrims and penitents, temples and

tanks – that there is a desire for higher things. In the
West, however, everything points to armed force,
great power, and material things. It is this power of
evil that makes me so sad. India is more and more
seeking the Master’s truth. The West is in danger of
becoming more and more indifferent. And yet the
West owes so many of its blessings to Christianity. At
one time the ostrich could fly, but because the ostrich
stopped using its wings, it became unable to fly. So are
the people of Europe and America – they do not appreciate
the faith of their forebears and are fast losing it.
The West is like Judas Iscariot, who ate with Yesu,
only to later deny him. The West ought to fear the
a warning to the west
fate of Judas, lest it hang itself on the tree of learning.
You have so many privileges. We in the East have to
give up many things when we become Christians. For
you, it is not so. Therefore be careful that you don’t
lose your only possibility for eternal happiness. I am
reminded of the hunter who was pursued by a tiger.
He had no fear because his hut was nearby and he was
sure that he had the key in his pocket. On reaching it,
however, the key was gone, and although there was
only the thickness of the door between him and
safety, he was lost.
Once when I was in the Himalayas, I was sitting
upon the bank of a river; I drew out of the water a 
beautiful, hard, round stone and smashed it. The inside
was quite dry. The stone had been lying a long
time in the water, but the water had not penetrated the
stone. It is just like that with the “Christian” people of
the West. They have for centuries been surrounded by
Christianity, entirely steeped in its blessings, but the
Master’s truth has not penetrated them. Christianity is
not at fault; the reason lies rather in the hardness of
their hearts. Materialism and intellectualism have
made their hearts hard. So I am not surprised that
many people in the West do not understand what
Christianity really is.
a warning to the west
Many modern thinkers in the West do not believe in
the miracles of our Master. To my mind, it’s already a
miracle that there are still spiritual people in the West
at all. In America, for example, one sees a good deal
of Christianity, but it does not address the spiritual
needs of the people. Just as salty seawater cannot
quench thirst, much of American religion cannot satisfy
a spiritually thirsty person because it is saturated
with materialism. The Master’s words, “Come unto
me all who are heavy laden and I will give you rest,”
are true as regards the East, but I think that for
America, he would say, “Come unto me all who are
heavy gold-laden and I will give you rest.” 
Looking at the motto “In God We Trust” on the
American dollar one might think the Americans are
very religious people, but the motto should read, “In the
dollar we trust.” Americans are seeking the almighty
dollar, not the Almighty God.
Although America is a “Christian” nation and there
are many sincere Christians in America, the majority
of the people there have no faith. There, where it is
so easy to have religion, where religion is offered on
every side and no one is persecuted for their beliefs,
life should be peaceful. Instead, there is a mad rush
and hustle and bustle after money and comfort and
a warning to the west
pleasure. In India, many Christians suffer bitter persecution
but continue to find happiness in their new faith.
Because it is so easy to have faith in America, people
do not appreciate what a comfort there is in faith.
Christian: What advice do you have, Sadhu-ji, for
Christian churches in the West?
Sadhu: A scientist had a bird in his hand. He wanted
to find out in what part of the bird’s body its life was
and what the life itself was. So he began dissecting the
bird. The result was that the very life of which he was

in search mysteriously vanished. Those who try to
understand the inner life merely intellectually will
meet with a similar failure. The life they are looking
for will only vanish.
When I returned from Europe, I began reading the
writings of the German mystic Jakob Boehme and
was attracted to him as soon as I had read the first two
or three pages. This simple, uneducated shoemaker
had an experience of God that has influenced millions
of people. I may be wrong, but I am more and more
convinced that simple people like Boehme have a pure
intuition and grasp easily and readily the Master’s
a warning to the west
profound spiritual truths. Educated people, especially
those I met in the West, repress their native intuition
and substitute in its place a kind of artificial rationalism.
That is why the Master called simple fishermen
as his disciples.
I studied theology in a theological seminary. I
learned many useful and interesting things no doubt,
but they were not of much spiritual profit. There
were discussions about sects, about Yesu Christ and
many other interesting things, but I found the reality,
the spirit of all these things, only at the Master’s feet.
When I spent hours at his feet in prayer, then I found
enlightenment, and God taught me so many things that 
I cannot express them even in my own language. Sit at
the Master’s feet in prayer; it is the greatest theological
college in this world. We know about theology, but he
is the source of theology itself. He explains in a few
seconds a truth that has taken years to understand.
Whatever I have learned has been learned only at his
feet. Not only learning, but life, I have found at his
feet in prayer.
I do not condemn theologians wholesale, but it is
unfortunately the fashion in Western thinking to
doubt and deny everything. I protest this tendency. I
never advise anyone to consult theologians, because
a warning to the west
all too often they have completely lost all sense of
spiritual reality. They can explain Greek words and all
that, but they spend too much time among their books
and not enough time with the Master in prayer. It is
not that I oppose all education, but education without
life is certainly dangerous. You must stop examining
spiritual truths like dry bones! You must break open
the bones and take in the life-giving marrow.


_________________
Steve

 2012/7/22 2:07Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1532


 Re: Sundar Singh on western Christians

Amen.

 2012/7/22 2:50Profile









 Re:

No. wonder that God is raising up the church in China, Iran, India, etc. To carry in his kingdom purposes.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/22 8:07
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I read Sadhu's book over 30 years ago. Along with Tortured for Christ it was very influential in my early Christian life. We all know what Sadhu's perception of Western Institutional Christianity is but I wonder what he would have come away with if he visited Christians who were in the heat of battle ministering on the streets and in the poorer areas of America?

If you go to the Institutional churches in any nation you will find the same thing (corruption). My Indian brothers tell me that Institutional Christianity in India is extremely corrupt. They tell me that "preachers" are sent out to people's homes and then they knock on their doors and when the are let in they come in, preach a message or teach something and then hold out their hand for payment. They expect to be paid and they do this in poor villages.

Sadhu would be very surprised at the state of Christianity in India, today. He might never come down from the Himalayas.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/22 9:49Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

If you go to the Institutional churches in any nation you will find the same thing (corruption).

_________

I have heard the same things. Corruption is not something only confined to the the organized church buildings in America. The body of CHRIST, the Bride, HIS CHURCH that is here as well as else where is living for their KING and being made ready.

Just on another note something I have been thinking about, persecution I am learning comes in many forms. America is already under attack with persecution from the enemy. I can not even tell you as a christian how my mind, eyes and ears are assaulted daily just by advertising and entertainment. Do the best I can to avoid it but even going to the grocery store and seeing how woman and men dress so immodestly puts one under attack!! IT may not be the same physical persecution as those who endure for HIS name sake, but for those who are seeking to live for HIM here it is most certainly a spiritual attacks that comes daily. I find that I am unable to completely avoid it unless I were to lock myself away in my home and that is not something HE would have me do, so I pray for the lost and for strength not to stumble into sin ...

God bless
mj

 2012/7/22 10:19Profile









 Re:


Sundar Singh on his unconverted mother:




Sundar proclaimed almost prophetic denunciations upon Western Christianity, and laughed at the way the West looked down upon religious men of the East as mere "pagans" and "heathens." "People call us heathens," he said in a conversation with the Archbishop of Upsala. "Just fancy! My mother a heathen! If she were alive now she would certainly be a Christian. But even while she followed her ancestral faith she was so religious that the term 'heathen' makes me smile. She prayed to God, she served God, she loved God, far more warmly and deeply than many Christians."

On another occasion, Sundar said, "I have seen many Christian women, but none of them came up to my mother." And, conversing with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Sundar said: "If I do not see my mother in heaven, I shall ask God to send me to hell so that I may be with her.

 2012/7/22 10:30
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I had forgotten that Scott. It has been a long time since I read that book. I do remember his denunciation of Western Christianity but forgot how he thought "religious devotion" was so sacred and would get you into heaven.

Reminds me of Spurgeon saying, "We need to repent of our repentance".

Pilgrim

 2012/7/22 10:42Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! 'Pilgrim777'

I hadn't even heard of this bro Sadhu nor his writings until reading the Thread here.

Anyways, from the perspective of someone suddenly parachuting in on his thoughts and heart, I jus' kinna' mumbled to myself, "Ho-Hummm" after reading his observations concerning cultural Christianity in the West.

The origin of our society and culture can be traced to the dominating powers behind the cities of Uruk in Mesopotamia, 4th millennium BC; and other great cities like Ninevah, Khorsbad, Nimrud, Babylon and so on. The city was the centre of political and religious culture. Its walls were not only physical but also spiritual; thereby giving the pretence of form, purpose and meaning to man's alienated existence.

Denominational churches behave very much like earthly cities. They exist as symbols of a pervading domination system which violently compels to subjugate and control in order to sustain itself. This explains why violence is enthroned at its very 'spiritual' core.

Every society and cultural religion has what what can be named as a "controlling" or predominant influence.

For instance, it might be said that the "controlling spirit" at work within the political, economic and social structures of the west are covetousness and greed. During the height of the Communist systems, Europe was ravaged by the powers of "coercion".

In more recent times, we have the clear evidence that these very same injurious powers became mirrored in Babylon; in the the unfaithful church, (cultural church). The downfall of Jim Baker's PTL, and others similar comes to mind.

If we focus more pointedly, we can even observe how it is that certain denominations can become overwhelmed by the same powers of darkness which their doctrinal posture had stridently opposed. The recent situations of Ted Haggard, Tyrone Gordon and others come to mind.

Another example, is the Maranatha! and Emergent Movements. While the controlling powers remained largely undetected during the early manifestation of these groups, the powers behind these groups are now rising with progressive vengeance.

In ancient days, the people largely depended on cave drawings and physical idols to fulfill their inherent lust for stimulation. In our days, this has been replaced by mass media of every sort. The manipulative stimuli of our day is far more persuasive and hypnotizing; and exceedingly more addictive.

From a very early age, we are induced to seek intense emotive and psychological drama. By the time we reach early adult years, this desire had matured to become a TV addiction. We found ourselves incessantly craving the invented stimuli of suspense, anxiety, fear, disquiet and a host of other emotional responses. Therefore, we shouldn't be surprised about the impending demise of the 'Mega-Church' syndrome. They are built and nurtured on untoward addictions to stimuli.

From my own personal experience as a WebSite Admin, I have repeatedly noted that people will almost instinctively discard what are excellent media teachings for the simple reason that they don't suitably fit their emotive and sensory desires and needs. They unconsciously demand to be stimulated in the flesh while feeding their spirits.
This circumstance at one time greatly concerned me and I set out to feverishly modify some of the media presentations. I soon learned that God isn't especially desiring to continue pampering the deaf and blind; that He is not so eager to compromise with the selfish temper tantrums of those seeking to be entertained instead of being nurtured.

Christians are groping for more adequate language to express the problem of evil in our world; to better comprehend what the Bible names as "principalities and powers". While it is the 'principalities that compel the lie of redemptive violence, it is the 'powers' which construct the dark spirituality suffocating our present world; conversely, it is the "powers of the air" which form the veil covering peoples hearts and minds and of which Jesus exposed declaring, "Hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in".

It could perhaps be better understood by the illustration of physicists who tell us that everything from protons to sub-atomic particles have both an inner and outer aspect; what we might name as 'spirit matter'. The collective profundity of the evil behind the realm of darkness is that it simultaneously manifests itself as both physical and spiritual.

The term 'powers' refers to the physical (outer) manifestation while 'principalities' refer to its spiritual (inner) manifestation. It is the 'powers' which form the spiritual ethos of our religious institutions and which compel the violent domination prevalent within the worldly political and economic systems.

I don’t believe that nominal Christians today are fully cognizant of the dramatic meaning behind Cain's desire to build himself a city. Not unlike earthly Jerusalem, Cain's city too is a visible image of an invisible reality. By its very construct, Cain's city was fundamentally opposed to God; a counter-creation possessing a negative spiritual identity ... a counterfeit reality.

Cain's city has spiritual significance because it was capable of directing and changing a man's spiritual life. It ushered in domination powers to infiltrate man and swallow up his life, (his entire being, not simply his 'house'). That is both the fearful legacy of Cain and also its fearful mystery.

From the times of Cain, Nimrod, and through to Babylon, (including our present day), the city represents a desire to violently dominate and destroy man for the sake of human works. At the very moment that Cain decided to "build himself a city", he had entered into a personal reverse-metamorphosis which would ultimately have him sanctify, justify and glorify the violence (against the human spirit) contained within it.

It is the powers which are predominant in the climate/atmosphere of the spirit-killing ‘city’ that falsely give the illusion of relationship, and the illusion of security to men. The devices found in this ‘city’ (TV, and other cultural inspirations) are its invisible chains.

This Bro Sadhu rightly condemned what he perceived as a fraudulent and nauseating Christianity in the Western world. Nevertheless, (in my opinion), he should not be so quick to dismiss the continuing restorative work of Jesus through the majesty of His Spirit.

At first glance, God's choice of earthly Jerusalem seems is very strange. It was a pagan city built by the Jebusites. It was a city full of bloodshed, a city so impure that Israel spurned it during its initial conquests in the Judges period. It was also a city of idolatry, and for this nearly all the prophets would condemn it.

From the day God chose the city of Jerusalem, He seems to be locked in a titan struggle with it. He destroys it again and again, exiles its inhabitants over and over. And to what avail? Seemingly none.

But God does not give up. Each time He rebuilds the city. Each time He rebuilds the temple. He seems determined that these things be healed, that they be separated from the negative spiritual powers that drive them, and that they become entirely pure and devoted to Him.

Contary to Babylon, earthly Jerusalem was a holy city where God met man where he was. A city with which God tirelessly strived to heal and restore to fulfil His purposes. It would have been easy for God to find a nice empty little spot of land and build a city separate from all of man’s vain and counter-productive creations, one without a negative spiritual identity. But instead God chose to adopt and transform the old Jerusalem.

So it was that God not only resisted the urge to destroy all of man’s cities, He also resisted simply starting a new city. He chooses to take what man has already created, to adopt it, and to very slowly heal and correct it. God's purpose was that the visible reality of the old Jerusalem would give way to the invisible reality of the New Heavenly Jerusalem.

This is all evidence of how immensely God is devoted to man and that He intends to honor His Covenants with him. God's love is so very much deeper than we can comprehend. God’s plan for the faithful city of Jerusalem was not to start over; nor was it to re-create. It remained as God's desire to adopt, and to heal and to restore. Such are the paradoxes behind Jerusalem’s election as a visible image of the unseen City of God in heavenly places.

This is why our faith is said to be the "evidence of things unseen". The faithful church has an "unseen" citizenship above (in the "unseen" heavenly places) and this is where the true and faithful are gathered "unseen" and who form the "unseen" Temple in the New Jerusalem.

 2012/7/22 11:31Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Blayne,

Sundar Singh is an amazing testimony and he lived an amazing life. He may have said what he said in his early Christian life and even if he did not, if you look at the entire context of his life and how he walked it was truly amazing and you would love his book. I highly recommend it and it will bless you immensely.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/22 11:47Profile
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
If you go to the Institutional churches in any nation you will find the same thing (corruption). My Indian brothers tell me that Institutional Christianity in India is extremely corrupt. They tell me that "preachers" are sent out to people's homes and then they knock on their doors and when the are let in they come in, preach a message or teach something and then hold out their hand for payment. They expect to be paid and they do this in poor villages.



I was talking to someone earlier this year and they said the same thing.

The man (that I heard about) was a guy from the US who sold all of his possessions and financed his way to India where he lived and preached to the poor in India. He went to someones house in India and told them about Christ, the man of the house said 'hold on a second...' from there he went into another room and came back and handed the Brother a bunch of money.

The brother said 'What are you doing? I can't accept money from you, I didn't come here for money!' The point is, this was the 'tradition' in the village in India, the brother would not accept the money though.

Praise God for these kinds of examples that the Lord has blessed us with!

 2012/7/22 13:56Profile





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