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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Can suicide be forgiven?


I have been watching this and it seems that most have missed her point! I am not posting about suicide b/c I want to make a statement about why Michelle wants to take her own life... this is EXACTLY what teaching divorce as the second unforgivable sin gets you – people feeling lost and hopeless. This teaching is as bad as the law in India they had for hundred years that when the husband died, they tied the woman to him and burned them both (illegal now). It sounds as if it is her husband who is the one who sinned and loves another but yet that teaching has made Michelle to feel the sinner and hopeless wanting to take her own life....

Quote:

so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH and can be happy? (caps are my emphasis, not hers)



Michelle, if your husband has fallen for another woman, then it is “HE” who is the one who is in the wrong and at fault here not you. Do not even THINK about killing yourself to make that pervert happy. You are allowed to part ways with him. Jesus said in the case of adultery you can leave and are free REMARRY. These Pharisee’s teach otherwise but you have to make up your mind who you want to follow: them or Christ.

From Derek Prince: If a person is free to divorce, is that person free to remarry? I want to say to you that both from Scripture and the culture of the Bible, there’s not a suggestion anywhere that a person can ever be legally free to divorce and NOT legally free to marry. DIVORCE INCLUDES THE RIGHT TO REMARRY. (caps are my emphasis, not Derek’s)

Oh but here it comes... the fruit throwing at me! Lol Throw away my friends! Jesus and I can handle it! Michelle, my email is on my profile page, feel free to use it!

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/7/18 12:11Profile









 Re: the Only Clause in the New Testament -

In this case - only if the wife commited adultery and that was the reason for the divorse, can this man ever re-marry - even if his wife lives or dies - he is Not Free to Remarry, if they are divorsed and she had not committed adultery while they were married.

If she did not commit adultery - even if she dies - he is NOT Biblically free to re-marry.

If she did commit adultery and he wanted the divorse because of that reason Only - he is free to re-marry, even if she's alive.

Alive or dead - if the wife did not commit adultery and adultery was Not the reason that they are divorsed - than he is by no means whatsoever free to 'ever' remarry.

Only if she commited adultery is he ever free to remarry - whether she's alive or dies of natural causes.

That is the only clause for remarriage that came from Jesus' mouth.



{eta} What I have written above is from the Old-Old Assemblies of GOD and The Church of GOD and others teaching on this matter.

The Main Point is - if she commited adultery and that is why her husband wanted the divorse and not because of Any other reason, [like, just wanting to marry someone else someday] - then he if free to remarry WITHOUT her needing to be dead!

 2012/7/18 12:31









 Re: PLEASE.......

Quote:
4gvn is a hurting person...please realize this when you post. Yes, I have talked with her...

Pray for her - she needs to feel your comfort and love.

ginnyrose



Amen.

 2012/7/18 12:48
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Mods,

I've never asked this before, but if you see this, PLEASE remove the user RighteousNew's posts from this thread. This is not the message we want someone assured of if they're hurting and stumble across this site looking for answers. Many times the devil needs only one voice to push someone over the edge, and I would hate to see this forum be a platform for that one voice.

 2012/7/18 12:55Profile









 Some steps and ideas.

"4gvn is a hurting person...please realize this when you post. Yes, I have talked with her...

Pray for her - she needs to feel your comfort and love.

ginnyrose"

Well, I did add that I hoped I was wrong, and I was; I really have never encountered this before, and the deadliness of the depression, all in order to make a cheating spouse happier?

It is really hard to wrap my mind around, but I will say one thing to 4gvn. You do not need to feel comfort and love as much as you need to get ahold of faith, and what it is. The Oprah gospel teaches the emotional side of this as valid. You may feel better, but healing comes by God's intervention by faith, and real healing will only come by that.

" Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him..................

!!!...Faith begins with an assurance that God is alive, and hears our petitions, and rewards them who seek Him!"

There is such a thing as Christian Counselling. It is possible that you could find help here, or possibly a real brother with a Pastorial passion could minister to you, and help you work out your faith. See yourself in it for the long-haul, often it may take a little time.

Do not avoid people, and withdraw. I know people are painful to be around when you are hurting. Try and find some degree of authentic fellowship; even a home fellowship. It is a lie to see yourself as worthless; this is self condemnation. See yourself as forgiven, and confess and forsake your unbelief to God in private prayer; also worship him, no matter what; as Job did.

Determine yourself to endure to the end, no matter what; this is resolve. Consider that there are people who love you, and consider the church. You would wound many people, and hurt them if you took your own life, so, consider it as unthinkable. You must overcome.

I hope this helps.

 2012/7/18 13:01
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:


JiG,

I am not talking about the man remarrying; I am talking about Michelle being able to remarry since her husband is the fornicator and she is an innocent.

But never mind, I’m not arguing with you, we’ve been down this road before. We don’t agree.

*******************

Michelle,
God bless you, fast and pray over these answers with your Bible handy and see what the Lord shares with you and then test it again!

Michelle, again I reiterate: “Do not even THINK about killing yourself to make that pervert happy. You are allowed to part ways with him. Jesus said in the case of fornication you can leave and are free REMARRY.”

Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/7/18 13:24Profile
Santana
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 286


 Re: Some steps and ideas.

4gvn, please read this short devo. It helped sooo much.

A SPECIAL TREASURE
by David Wilkerson

In Numbers 13 and 14, we see that Israel had sent twelve spies to search out
the Promised Land. When these spies returned after forty days, they planted
three lies in the hearts of God's people:

* "There are too many people in the land — and they're too strong for us."
* "The cities are walled too high. The strongholds are impregnable."
* "There are giants in the land and we are no match for them. We are
helpless, finished!"

These lies took the heart right out of Israel and the people endured a night of
despair: "And all the congregation lifted up their voice, and cried; and the
people wept that night" (Numbers 14:1). Can you imagine this scene? Think of
what it must have sounded like. More than 2 million people were weeping,
wailing, moaning, focusing completely on their weaknesses and inabilities.
Those wailing sounds of unbelief bombarded heaven.

Beloved, take a good, hard look at that scene and you may see yourself in the
midst of it. Have you ever spent a night like that one, wailing and moaning
because of demonic lies that were planted in your spirit? You may have cried
out to God, "I've had it — I can't take any more. This trial is too much.
These strongholds in me will never come down. I'll never make it. I've lost the
battle."

The devil throws these same three lies at all of God's people: "Your
temptations are too numerous. Your lusts are too overwhelming. You are too weak
to resist the powers coming against you."

The word that God spoke to Israel is for us today: "Ye shall be a peculiar
[special] treasure unto me above all people; for all the earth is mine" (Exodus
19:5).

"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen
thee to be a peculiar [precious, special] people unto himself, above all the
nations that are upon the earth" (Deuteronomy 14:2).


_________________
Leonardo Santana

 2012/7/18 13:25Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: Whoa!

BrotherTom, you wrote:

"There have been a number of 'substitutionary suicides' in history that may not fall into the category of sin. The most obvious might be when a soldier in battle falls on a hand-grenade in a crowded foxhole. He commits suicide to protect and save others. How would God see this?"

I have yet to read the other posts, but just a quick response to your above comment - This reminds me of a section in G. K. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" where he makes the following commentary regarding this topic:

"Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible." (Chesterton, "Orthodoxy", Chapter 5).

What do you think of this?

Love-in-Christ,

KP


 2012/7/18 14:11Profile
dvndsn
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 86
Kentucky

 Re:

JiG, I won't argue but only put forth my view. I believe in that instance (fornication by the spouse), divorce EDIT: "and remarriage" is allowed. Also, I believe 1 Corinthians 7:15 gives permission for divorce (if an unbelieving spouse leaves). However, the passage as a whole does not say anything about remarriage. It is not wise to presume on the Word of God.

Back to 4gvn, is she okay? Do we know much else? I am praying for her.

 2012/7/18 14:11Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Christian Psychology, (no kidding?)

BrotherTom also wrote:

"There is such a thing as Christian Counselling. It is possible that you could find help here, or possibly a real brother with a Pastorial passion could minister to you, and help you work out your faith. See yourself in it for the long-haul, often it may take a little time."

Boy, IS there. And God's Word is the DSM-IV.

Why do we Christians miss the boat regarding the fact that "Christian Counseling" (that is, counseling rooted in the authority of God's Word, the faith in the Love of the Son of God, and the comfort of the Spirit) is the only sufficient healing source for mental health.

Oh, the healing breakthroughs that would take place if Christian counseling took its proper stand in the field of psychology!!!

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/18 14:32Profile





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