SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics :  An Alarm Unheeded

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread









 Re:

Saints I agree with Greg's observation that this case is not as black and white as it is made out to br. There is no denying Michael Salmon violated building codes and is paying the price. So it can be argued that he has blasphemed the name of God among the gentiles. It can be argued that he has been a stumbling block to the gospel. Ok. Valid points. But can we look at the other side of the case.

The man is a Christian. At least evidenced by the fact that he was holding Bible studies in his home. Or on his property a separate structure. He also had a cross in his front yard. The studies or church services must gave been popular. People were coming to them. For all we know people were being saved and coming to cross. Now the rub. People started to complain. About the traffic. About the noise. Ebo do you think was complaining? Well it was not the believers but the unbelievers. Probably because what this brother was doing was offending them.. I mean his message of Christ.

My guess is the city of Phoenix is sending a message. The message is Christians will not be tolerated in this city unless we control them. Now some may say Bear that is extreme. Christianity is legal. One can be a Christian and not be arrested or persecuted. But for how long?

Saints please consider. A couple is fined San Juan Capistrano for holding a Bible study in their home. The same reasoning was used. Code violations. In this case no complaints from neighbors. It was only after media attention and the threat ot a law suit the city backed down.

Pleases consider. They city ot Gilbert AZ has told a local church they cannot have home meetings. The church has a limited budget and can only afford to meet on Sunday. So they meet in homes. Gilbert says such meetings violate land use. Though code officers promise to revisit the code.

I am sure there are other incidents as these stories have been popping up in other parts of the country with greater frequency. But the two I cited above are the mist recent examples.

If the Phoenix example were an isolated event then maybe we would say yeah. The bro is out of line. But set against the backdrop of an antichrist spirit and these other reports coming in from other parts of the country, there should be cause for concern. There does appear to be a systematic discrimination against Christian in America.

Saints please consider the hostile environment we live in. One can no longer carry a Bible to school or reference it in the public classroom. One can no longer pray in school. Let alone pray in Jesus name. One cannot speak out against homosexuality or Islam without being labeled a hate monger. And subject to prosecution under the hate crimes law.

I could go on. But those of you who live. in N. America know what I am talking about. No the governments of Canada and the U S have not declared Christianity to be illegal. But there is a marginalization of Christians in N. America. A marginalization that leads to discrimination. Discrimination that leads to persecution. Then prison and martyrdom. This appeared to be the pattern against Jews in Germany prior to WWll.

Saints I am not trying to defend this brother in Phoenix. He did violate building code. But before we judge him too harshly. Let us consider that America is in a hostile environment as concerns the things of Christ. I am only asking that you evaluate the Phoenix event in light of what we are living in today.

We cannot escape the reality of persecution. Godly men such as Art Katz and Denny Kenniston have warned us of its coming to our shores. Indeed some would say it is here. Let us pray that the SI conference will awaken and prepare us to its reality.

For the cause of Jesus,

Breaux Bear.

 2012/7/14 12:58









 Re: Brotherton

Had the man been a Muskem, the city would not have bothered him. Phoenix probably would have given him a tax break and financial aid to build a mosque. Moslems are being given much favor in many American cities.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/14 13:06
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Bearmaster,

Did you read brothertom's post?

Pray for this man and his fellowship to do the the right and godly thing and quit judging and accusing the city officials for doing their job.

Enough said, we are christian's and we are suppose to live above reproach. We are not to let our good be evil spoken of. We are suppose to obey those that have the authority over us.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

 2012/7/14 13:43Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: An Alarm Unheeded

To have a building where one can go for corporate worship is so very nice. It can keep one warm when it is cold outside, or it can keep us cool when it is stinking hot out; or it will protect us from the rain, wind and snow. Very nice. What a wonderful blessing.

But you know what? Jesus never promised his followers they would have a structure to meet in. Nor did he give the disciples plans on how to design or build one. Instead Paul - through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - says our bodies are the temple of the living God. It is this temple we should be concerned about.

If the day will come where one cannot meet in a building, it will not be the end of the church - it will just be the end of enjoying some creature comforts that we have had for so long.

What about meeting in the woods or a cave or a barn? I would guess a meeting of this sort would do a lot to prove our faith then ... you name it.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/7/14 14:34Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Oh, and another thing...

In recent years I have taught VBS, having teen-aged girls in my class. Would you know they were much better behaved when our class was held in the woods behind our air-conditioned church house?

Think about that...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/7/14 14:36Profile
NMatheson
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 28
Duluth, MN.

 Re:

I agree completely with Ginny. We certainly will face ridicule and persecution. It would be painfully ignorant of us to expect safety when 3/4ths (roughly) of the world face it with severity.

It is a sad thing to witness all of this happening. In my life personally I have grown so used to everything being okay. Today I would say half the good friends I have had have fallen away, carried off by strange doctrine and a rejection of sin. It's hit me like a brick in the face. I realize the seriousness of it and I try to make a point in prayer to ask God to guide me with the Holy Spirit, and to bring back my loved ones.

There are several things we will always have. The Church, and a God who listens and provides are among them. We know that we are headed for dark times. A time when we may need to fellowship secretly. But the church is not the building we meet in; It is the people. The body of Christ. We must never forget that.


_________________
Nate Matheson

 2012/7/14 17:17Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Very good points, Sister ginnyrose!

I think back to my trips to the Tarahumara tribes deep in the Sierra Madre Occidental in Chihuahua, Mexico. Before a building was built for them, the Church there met together beneath the shade of a tree. Some of the most wonderful meetings that I have ever attended were with believers under trees, in caves or just outside.

Several years ago, I attended a home Bible study with a group of believers. One of the ladies who attended the meeting was an immigrant from El Salvador. When she was a teenager, she migrated from El Salvador to the United States. Her journey was long and hard and punctuated by moments of horror. She married (and later divorced) an American man and is now a permanent resident of the country.

During this Bible study, the leader asked if we take our church "creature comforts" for granted. He mentioned the persecution of the early church and ongoing economic status and persecution of believers around the world. He asked what all of us would do if our church building didn't have pads upon the pews, microphones, musical instruments or air conditioning.

Oddly enough, the only person who admitted that she wouldn't fellowship there was this woman from El Salvador. During the ride home, this woman was adamant that God had "freed" her from poverty and wouldn't go back to it. I was caught off guard by her comments; however, I think that it goes to show how "comfortable" we can become in Zion if we aren't careful.

In one of his messages, David Wilkerson stated how the luxuries of yesterday always have a tendency of becoming the necessities of today. Things that were once thought of as "luxuries" -- such as a telephone, indoor plumbing, hot/cold water, automobiles, air conditioning -- are now considered "necessities" just a few decades later.

As you reminded us, a building is not required for the Church to corporately fellowship. It is just a luxury. It is nice to have, but a group of believers can fellowship and worship beneath the shade of a tree just as easily as they can in a fancy air-conditioned building or home.

I am praying about this situation in Phoenix. I suspect that this man in Phoenix and the rest of the gathering will find another place to fellowship with one another until this situation is resolved by the various governing authorities who will work either for him or against him. Yet, as NMatheson pointed out, there are many people in this world who face persecution and ridicule much more severe than a zoning dispute.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/14 17:36Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy