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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Arizona Pastor Arrested (not for the gospel)


This is an update; bearmaster let me know that he NOT in jail for the gospel of Christ but for not complying to city code. WHAT is the matter with Christians that they can't be honest but instead misrepresent themselves in an article. Pitiful.

The not-so-honest article:

Bible study leader Michael Salman is sitting in jail today after his home was raided earlier this week by more than a dozen Phoenix, Ariz. police officers and city officials. His offense? The city says people aren’t allowed to hold private Bible studies on their own property.

Salman was sentenced to 60 days in jail, three years probation and received a $12,180 fine for “the crime.” His wife Suzanne spoke with Fox and Friends this morning to express her shock and disbelief at the entire situation. According to Suzanne, the city told her that her husband was essentially arrested because the Bible study was at a private house .. and that essentially, it’s a church. Since they weren’t zoned for church, they were told they were breaking the rules.

“It defies logic, honestly. I don’t understand … that something so small got so large like this,” Suzanne said. “People do it all over the United States all the time.”

John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute believes the family is being discriminated against because of their faith. “The key is — the Constitution guarantees the right to freedom of religion … the right to assemble and talk to each other wherever you want to be – in public or in your home,” he said. “The thing that I think is so shocking is that you might expect this in Iran or [some place] around the world … but happening in the United States, this is so shocking it’s beyond belief.”

Phoenix City Prosecutor Vicki Hill said in a statement: “It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire, and that’s really all this comes down to.”

What do you make of this case? As Suzanne says in the below interview, is this different than a regularly meeting Tupperware group or the like? And if so, how and why?


http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/11/arizona-pastor-arrested-jailed-for-holding-bible-study-in-home-his-wife-says-it-defies-logic/


_________________
Lisa

 2012/7/13 5:25Profile









 Re: Arizona Pastor Arrested, Jailed for Holding Bible Study in Home

Lysa check the News and Current Events Board. Another thread entitled 60 Days Imprisonment for Holding Bible Study in Home. More info was brought out on that thread. The pastor apparently built a two thousand foot structure next to his home where the meetings were held. This apparently did violate some zoning ordinances. The pastor apparently had no building permits and so forth.

The impression I get is he is not imprisoned for holding a Bible study in his living room or basement. But for having a structure next to his home that does not conform to city code.

Now the question to ask is does this justify the use of SWAT tactics on the part of police. A dozen armed police. My guess in full battle tac gear. And 60 days of imprisonment and $12,000 fine. All of this for building code violations? This I find troubling.

If this was a narco raid I can see the use of SWAT tactics. But an illegal structure?. Excessive fine and imprisonment?

You would think the Phoenix police would have more pressing concerns.. Like say the cartel wars of northern Mexico that are spilling over Into Arizona.

I would suggest there is more to this story. Such as the emerging of a hatred of those things of Christ. Now I think we see the importance of the upcoming Sermon Indexed conference.

Posted by Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 8:08









 Re:

Saints am I to assume all is at ease in Zion? The church is at rest in America? There us no need to be concerned this brother was arrested in Phoenix for holding a Bible study on his property. Even if it was in a structure he was not supposed to have? Do we not see a pattern here of what is to come?

I see you get riled up over things less serious but this story is going to pass into the archives. If I were to post the NIV is the best translation one could have you would be all over me like fleas on a hound dog. I started a thread where I rejected the reformers teaching but honored the Anabaptist and you got riled up. I say don't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. You get riled up. And so forth.

But when someone post about a Bible study being banned in a home on America. A couple being tinned for having such s Bibke study in their home. Or a nan arrested and fined excessively and spending 60 faults in jail this forum is strangely quiet. Even now I can hear a pin drop.

Would someone please instruct me? Should we not be concerned about this? Or is discussing the gap theory mote important?

Bearnaster.

 2012/7/13 10:30
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Brother, I have been leading a house church out of my home for the last 5 years. If the government came in and said that I could not hold it in my living room, we would have issues. If I built a structure out back, put up a sign with a cross and had people coming at different hours of the day, I would suspect that the government would contact me about my activities.

To me, this is a non issue. This brother is in the wrong. No one says that he cannot worship, all that they are saying is that if he builds a structure, he needs to follow the correct building codes.

Also, for anyone that has worked with multiple city agencies and multiple site inspectors, you will know that sometimes you have to grease their egos. A few of these folks I have found out have large egos. If you are on the wrong side of the ego, they will make things HARD for you. If you play ball, they will usually let the little things slide, as long as you work to fix them.

This brother threw up his nose at the rules. If he chooses to not follow the law, specifically one that is not a sin, then he will have to face the consequences. What would happen if someone was hurt or killed in his structure because of lack of building codes? Chances is he or someone else could sue the city for lack of oversight.

This issue is not infringing on his right to worship.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/7/13 11:47Profile
BillT2030
Member



Joined: 2012/7/11
Posts: 2


 Re:

In my line of work I have to file for permits all the time and deal with building inspectors. I understand completely where the city is coming from on this case, and they are correct. This brother is clearly in the wrong, and not only is he in the wrong but he is in rebellion. There are two purposes of building permits/inspections. 1) they are meant to protect the health and safety of the general public, 2) protect against property damage, 3) generate revenue for the city or state.

Pulling permits to properly build a building is not asking someone to disobey the Bible or God's laws. This brother has no Biblical basis for disregarding the law. And then to not give all the facts, and make it look like he is being persecuted for simply having a "bible study in his home" is incomprehensible. It's deceitful.

The issue is not the bible study. The issue is his disregard for authority, and ultimately his disregard for the safety and health of his congregation.

 2012/7/13 12:02Profile









 Re:

I am not disputing the fact the brother was right in having an attached structure or a cross on his front yard. Particularly if it was in violation of building code. But what I find alarming is a dozen armed police to show up to arrest him. And then 60 days in jail and s twelve thousand dollar fine. This is clearly sending a message. And the message is not what happens when one violates building codes.

How many people violate building codes on a daily basis or have illegal structures on their property. Do you have SWAT showing up to arrest them? Why the use of extreme force in this case? Could it be that the man was a Christian and his message was offensive?

Look, should the brother have been in compliance with city regs. Yes. Does he need to pay for violating the law. Yes. But the penalties are a bit extreme. And against the back drop of the hostility toward the things of Christ in this nation there is more to this story.

A few months ago a couple was fined in California for having a Bible study in their home. This was a study in their living room. No complaints from their neighbors. Do a google search and many communities are enacting laws to ban Bibke studies and house churches.

I am suggesting that what occurred in Phoenix is a purview of things go come. Granted the persecution of the church in America SIll purify it. But let us be alert to its coming.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 12:58









 Re:

I am not disputing the fact the brother was right in having an attached structure or a cross on his front yard. Particularly if it was in violation of building code. But what I find alarming is a dozen armed police to show up to arrest him. And then 60 days in jail and s twelve thousand dollar fine. This is clearly sending a message. And the message is not what happens when one violates building codes.

How many people violate building codes on a daily basis or have illegal structures on their property. Do you have SWAT showing up to arrest them? Why the use of extreme force in this case? Could it be that the man was a Christian and his message was offensive?

Look, should the brother have been in compliance with city regs. Yes. Does he need to pay for violating the law. Yes. But the penalties are a bit extreme. And against the back drop of the hostility toward the things of Christ in this nation there is more to this story.

A few months ago a couple was fined in California for having a Bible study in their home. This was a study in their living room. No complaints from their neighbors. Do a google search and many communities are enacting laws to ban Bibke studies and house churches.

I am suggesting that what occurred in Phoenix is a purview of things go come. Granted the persecution of the church in America SIll purify it. But let us be alert to its coming.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 13:00









 Re:

In a lesser known case the town of Gilbert AZ had banned Bibke studies in its town borders. What is with Arizona?

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 13:44









 Re:

Lysa let me be the first to say. I am not sure of all of the details here. It appears the brother had a separate structure on his property. The structure was used to house Bible studies. There was a large cross in his front yard. Phoenix says he violated building codes . This may be true.

But what I have tried to point out that there is a hostility toward the followers of Christ in this country. Did the violations constitute the need for a dozen armed police to descend upon this man's house to arrest him?. And charge him with such a large fine and two months in prison?

As I stated in a previous post. How many people violate building codes that justify the use of SWAT tactics? How many people are charged with huge fines in violation of building regs?

Yes, we can sit in this forum and say the brother is in rebellion and must pay the consequences. But is it because the man is a Bible study leader that had large meetings n his home that evoked a hostile response on the part of Phoenix.? Is it because the nan is a Christian that the city of Phoenix is coming against him.

I suggest this is more than building code violations. That Phoenix is sending a message. The message is Christ will not be tolerated in Phoenix. Christ will not be tolerated in Arizona. Christ will mot be tolerated in America.

Wake up saints. Persecution is here..

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 15:34









 Re:

Another question. If this man were a Moslem. Would the city if Phoenix have gone against him in such massive force. Not hardly. There are reports of mosque going up in this country with links to radical Islamic groups. Does the government move against them? No.

The more I ponder this case the more it stinks. There is simply something that smells in the city if Phoenix.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/13 15:42





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