Poster | Thread | TMK Member
Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: | | MJ wrote: "I think it comes down to the attitude of our hearts... do I love the LORD with all my heart, soul, mind and strength? Am I willing to submit completely to HIS authority as LORD in my life? Am I willing to obey and follow where ever HE may lead?"
Amen to that.
_________________ Todd
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| 2012/7/9 15:24 | Profile |
| Re: | | Flesh does not want to be crucified. It screams against it. Our whole being is so sin soaked that we are hardly aware of the tricks flesh will up to, to avoid crucifixion. We will tell ourselves that we dont understand some scriptures, that they are too hard to know, that God will have to mature us more before we can manage some things, that our childhood was too hard and we were too damaged to live like the disciples. There will never come a time when it will be silenced enough for us to take that step but each moment we waste is another moment in hell when the kingdom of heaven awaits. |
| 2012/7/9 15:55 | | ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: The Cost of Discipleship | | QUOTE: ______________________________________________________________
The matter is quite simple. The bible is very easy to understand. But Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. They pretend to be unable to understand it because they know very well that the minute they understand, they are obliged to act accordingly. ______________________________________________________________
The devil has whispered these very words into my ear, too, already.
Under the OT law ignorance of the law did not excuse anyone from the consequences of violating it.
Under the NT the same principle still is operating. Romans 1:20: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
It may be interesting to ask those who hold to this philosophy under what authority they believe this to be true?
My understanding...
_________________ Sandra Miller
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| 2012/7/9 16:14 | Profile | ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: The Cost of Discipleship | | QUOTE: ______________________________________________________________
Christian scholarship is the Churchs prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. ______________________________________________________________
May be, depending on who you are talking about.
Then there are those who will expound on the WORD, giving sense to it so the listeners can better understand it. This happened in the OT, Nehemiah 8:8 "So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading" and still is true today.
May I suggest this author has limited exposure to writings by godly men...
_________________ Sandra Miller
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| 2012/7/9 16:22 | Profile |
| Re: What does the criss nean. | | One of the clearest commands Jesus gave to be a disciple was to take up their cross to follow him. We often apply this in the spiritual to follow Christ. Much in the Gal. 2:20 sense. While this is a ligitimate application of taking up one's cross. I would suggest there is more.
First of all how would the original listeners have understood Jesus command. Remember Judea was an occupied country. Subjugated by the Romans. There were those who resisted the Romans and were dealt with in Roman brutal justice. The Romans did not invent crucifixon. But they had perfected to an agonizing slow death. Those who were crucified were hung on crosses that dotted the Judean countryside. This was to show the severity of Roman justice.
Those who carried their crooses were going to a place of certain death. They would suffer a slow, agonizing, painful death. The condemned would be mocked, humiliated, cursed, be left naked for all to see. They would be scorned. And they would die.
I believe this is what Jesus is calling for his disciples to do. To come suffer the cross. The Chineese Christiabs don't call the way of the cross duffering. But identification with Christ.
Bonehoffer said when Jesus bids a man to come to him he bids him to come and die. This is the cost of diskcipleship. To be a witness, a martyr for Jesus. Lest any mishnderstand what I say. The word martyr in the Greek is witness. So to take our cross is to suffer and die for Jesus. This is the true cost of discipleship.
Posted by Bearmaster. |
| 2012/7/9 16:54 | | Areadymind Member
Joined: 2009/5/15 Posts: 1042 Pacific Ocean
| Re: The Cost of Discipleship | | The matter is quite simple. The bible is very easy to understand. But Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. They pretend to be unable to understand it because they know very well that the minute they understand, they are obliged to act accordingly."
One thing that probably needs to be suggested for this is that Kierkegaard's statement may need to be historically contextualized. He lived from 1813-1855, only 42 years, and for such a young age was a rather prolific individual. I know you said you did not want to discuss "him" perse, but his statement may reflect some truth as to the atmosphere of scholarship in his day. It may be dangerous to just pull this quote out and assume that it means in all cases today what it may have meant in his day. (Not that I know for sure, it just might be good to hit the pause button and consider the possibility.)
The fact of the matter is, today my walk increases in great depth regularly, thankfully to good solid biblical scholarship. As a matter of fact I think that good scholarship does more to prevent bad teaching than almost anything.
That being said, there is the truth that many, myself included if I think I stand, may increase in knowledge by ever learning and may never be able to come to a full knowledge of the truth.
All that being said, this needs to be balanced, and also I understand what MJ was saying earlier. We are exceptionally gifted when it comes to evading the mirror of the word of God.
"But Jesus did not commit himself to them because he knew all men!" _________________ Jeremiah Dusenberry
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| 2012/7/9 17:17 | Profile | pilgrim777 Member
Joined: 2011/9/30 Posts: 1211
| Re: | | Quote:
Areadymind One thing that probably needs to be suggested for this is that Kierkegaard's statement may need to be historically contextualized. He lived from 1813-1855, only 42 years, and for such a young age was a rather prolific individual. I know you said you did not want to discuss "him" perse, but his statement may reflect some truth as to the atmosphere of scholarship in his day. It may be dangerous to just pull this quote out and assume that it means in all cases today what it may have meant in his day. (Not that I know for sure, it just might be good to hit the pause button and consider the possibility.)
I think that is a good point so I rescind my request not to talk about him. I think he may have been pushing back at the "Textual Criticism of his day. Clearly, he is against "scholarship" that nullifies or waters down the Word of God. A problem we see that is rampant, today.
Quote:
All that being said, this needs to be balanced, and also I understand what MJ was saying earlier. We are exceptionally gifted when it comes to evading the mirror of the word of God.
I thought that was particularly insightful from MJ. We see something in the mirror that WE want to see and not what is really there. We have to love the truth enough to want to see it and receive it.
Quote:
bearmaster
Re: What does the cross mean. | One of the clearest commands Jesus gave to be a disciple was to take up their cross to follow him. We often apply this in the spiritual to follow Christ. Much in the Gal. 2:20 sense. While this is a ligitimate application of taking up one's cross. I would suggest there is more.
First of all how would the original listeners have understood Jesus command. Remember Judea was an occupied country. Subjugated by the Romans. There were those who resisted the Romans and were dealt with in Roman brutal justice. The Romans did not invent crucifixon. But they had perfected to an agonizing slow death. Those who were crucified were hung on crosses that dotted the Judean countryside. This was to show the severity of Roman justice.
Those who carried their crosses were going to a place of certain death. They would suffer a slow, agonizing, painful death. The condemned would be mocked, humiliated, cursed, be left naked for all to see. They would be scorned. And they would die.
You know what I saw when I read that Bearmaster? When Jesus said that to his disciples they must have been shocked. But, later on (3 years), they realized that Jesus was going to (and did) carry His cross and died first. And then it all became clear to them. "Pick up your cross and follow me (to death). This actually goes well with the all the threads that talking about dying to sin, reckoning yourself dead, we've been freed from sin, have no obligation to the flesh to sin anymore, etc,etc. If we don't pick up our cross, then the flesh is happy and sinning away, but if we do pick up our cross each day, then we give no occasion to the flesh. We choose rather to suffer (crucified life) than enjoy the pleasures of Egypt (flesh). He that has suffered in the flesh (choosing to carry his cross) has CEASED from SIN.
Quote:
ginnyrose
Re: The Cost of Discipleship | QUOTE: ______________________________________________________________
Christian scholarship is the Churchs prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. ______________________________________________________________
May be, depending on who you are talking about.
I am thinking that he is talking about the liberal scholars of his day.
Quote:
Then there are those who will expound on the WORD, giving sense to it so the listeners can better understand it. This happened in the OT, Nehemiah 8:8 "So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading" and still is true today.
Thanks God for anointed teacherss called of God.
Quote:
May I suggest this author has limited exposure to writings by godly men...
I don't think so. I think he had great exposure to writings of Godly men and that is why he was able to make a distinction about what true Christianity is and what liberal theology DOES to the Word.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Pilgrim
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| 2012/7/9 18:18 | Profile | passerby Member
Joined: 2008/8/13 Posts: 742
| Re: | | What is discipleship? what is the cross? How are we to apply these concepts in our daily walk as christians, individually and as a church. |
| 2012/7/10 1:19 | Profile | roadsign Member
Joined: 2005/5/2 Posts: 3777
| Re: | | Quote:
[Provocations: Spiritual Writings of Kierkegaard]
Whenever quoting a small portion of someones writings, it's helpful to remember that there is a bigger picture which we cannot see. Also the writer is coming from his own experience - in his own world. That is not readily observable in a few extracted words. Yet is important to understand, lest we misinterpret the intent of the writer, or (as often happens) use the quote to prove something that is in OUR own minds (proof text).
Im curious myself: What stirred Kierkegaard to put down these thoughts? What was going on in his world at the time
and in his mind? What is his main thrust as a philosopher, and how does the above quote relate with that
. and also with the biblical message?
Diane
_________________ Diane
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| 2012/7/10 7:26 | Profile | passerby Member
Joined: 2008/8/13 Posts: 742
| Re: | | I agree maa'm. We need to apply critical thinking in many matters. Christian scholarship is one of the graces that can benefit any christian.
For example on the issue about discipleship, there are discipleship systems existing today that without those critical writing of our brethren, many will suffer and continue to suffer from the deception or errors that some of these systems are propagating. |
| 2012/7/11 21:53 | Profile |
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