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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37633
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

 World's 1st Genetically Modified babies born

The world’s first genetically modified humans have been created, it was revealed last night.

The disclosure that 30 healthy babies were born after a series of experiments in the United States provoked another furious debate about ethics.
So far, two of the babies have been tested and have been found to contain genes from three ‘parents’.

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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/6/30 12:51Profile

 The mother of the clone. The quest to meet Superman.

It is a further and very worrying step down the wrong road for humanity.' Professor Cohen and his colleagues diagnosed that the women were infertile because they had defects in tiny structures in their egg cells, called mitochondria.

They took eggs from donors and, using a fine needle, sucked some of the internal material - containing 'healthy' mitochondria - and injected it into eggs from the women wanting to conceive.......

...Sounds fairly helpful and innocent to help the infertile woman...BT

Because mitochondria contain genes, the babies resulting from the treatment have inherited DNA from both women. These genes can now be passed down the germline along the maternal line.

But.........along with this innovative research, he also thinks he has found a way for the male to have his own baby, all grown in the lab by just the female egg, and the man's sperm....and his research will be used to attempt the unthinkable; creating human life with perfection.

[ Say, tracing down Mohammed's genome, and reproducing it..]

"Professor Cohen said that his expertise would allow him to clone children --a prospect treated with horror by the mainstream scientific community.

'It would be an afternoon's work for one of my students,' he said, adding that he had been approached by 'at least three' individuals wishing to create a CLONED CHILD, but had turned down their requests.

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My question would be "When men create men what happens to the soul, and would there be one?....and of course the question of mutations, and partial humans, in the quest for super-humans. Satan's head pops up a lot. There is so much pride in these endeavours; it cannot be measured. There is something inherit within it that is at the very heart of REBELLION itself.
We are gods unto ourselves.

 2012/6/30 15:33

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


'It is a further and very worrying step down the wrong road for humanity.' (quote from Prof Cohen)

I browsed through some other news releases on this, and found myself more intrigued by the numerous responses. They were largely from the Christian community expressing horror. (and justifiably so!) Still, I was reminded of the wandering Israelites who heard a similar disturbing news release. That one was about giants in the land of Canaan.

In both cases, I’d say, the reaction reflects mass hysteria more than a calm faith in a God. I wonder, would this recent litany of emotionally-charged reactions draw modern atheist scientists to God, or would it merely reinforce their present judgments about Christians – as a group of superstitious, non-thinking, reactionary breed of people.

When God’s people are beset by anxiety about the potential downfall of the human race – they surely cannot be a convincing testimony of God’s hope through Christ.

News releases have some degree of spin – and scientific content is especially prone to this. Unfortunately we don’t have the benefit of the peer reviews – those who may offer clearer details or other perspectives. I think waiting will benefit our position better in the long run.

Meanwhile as calm trusting Christians we can surely formulate our own “peer reviews” – rather than lash out with hysterical knee jerk reactions. Rather than let our minds run away imagining our land getting overrun by mutant giants and soul-less automatons we surely can look up to our Lord - and his way with the human race. Our God has crumbled many Babel towers throughout history. If he didn’t, the human race would have annihilated itself long before now! God still reigns over the universe – even today; And as the God over all, his plans and purposes will not be short circuited by a group of scientists trying to play god. And let’s admit, playing god has been around since Adam and Eve.

But so has God’s promise to remedy this sin, and restore people to a right relationship with him - through Christ.

If God permitted the giants to remain in Canaan to test the faith of the Israelites, could this GM Babies news release, in itself, not be used by God to test our faith?

I say: Let's not get held back by the mob hysteria and the “giants” of our imaginations, but in faith let's walk into the Promised Land. God is our victor, after all.

What do you think? Am I being to naive and simplistic?



 2012/7/1 7:17Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638


Quote: "What do you think? Am I being to naive and simplistic?"

Not me, Diane. I agree with you. There is certainly cause for alarm, but not panic. Even non-Christians should be alarmed (remember "Jurassic Park"?). Quite frankly it seems that genetic research of this type has come along slower than expected.

Quite a while back, I used to think that perhaps the Antichrist would be a cloned person, in mockery of the virgin birth. My end times views have changed since then; interesting thought nonetheless.

I too have often wondered if cloned persons would have a soul. I suppose if God wants to, He can see to that.


 2012/7/1 7:46Profile

 The thought of the clone: A sign of the times. The end is near.

"But so has God’s promise to remedy this sin, and restore people to a right relationship with him - through Christ.

"If God permitted the giants to remain in Canaan to test the faith of the Israelites, could this GM Babies news release, in itself, not be used by God to test our faith?" Diane....

I don't think the news release is as much of a test of our faith, as it is a wake up call that we are very near the end. Does God remedy sin?; Ask Sodom and Gomorrah.

What was the tipping point? The flood of Noah occurred in circa 1614 BC, and Sodom was destroyed in about 1395 BC...We see that only a mere 220 years had passed; about the age of America as a nation.

At some point, their evil was judged violently by God. Why did God not do it sooner? It had to tip the scales, so to speak.

They had crossed some kind of line in God's eyes, as Belshazzar had done later in Daniels day, when the hand appeared, and declared so. They had tipped the scales, and were destroyed.

For Sodom, there came a day and an hour when He rained down fire and brimstone in His wrath for their murderous abominations. I have stood on that plain. There is no other explanation for the sea of frozen granite, rolling like waves down into the sea of salt. It was melted by some Force. God is alive.

I see evil like this in that way; it will continue;
"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived."

The good and evil grow up together, just like the wheat and the tares. At some point, God will judge the wicked, when evil reaches the flower of her sin, as will the Righteous when they reach the flower of their holiness; The Return and Gathering together of the Bride.

This idea of creating life our way is rebellion in a high order. We our gods; man is king and ruler. The Internet is very interesting, in it's vast ability to connect knowledge. A scripture has always fascinated me, and I relate cyberspace connection to it;

And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them."

Nothing they propose to do will be withheld from them!....This is what God said! I doubt that we will see clone armies and supermen and the like, but the arrogance of trying it will bring judgment.

This is what the Great Tribulation is about; It is the trial you speak of Diane, and in the end, it will humble EVERYONE, and on His Return, Satan and the god of Islam too, and every wicked man and woman, burnt by His wrath.

Isaiah 24: Some of those who read this post will see this, before Jesus' return.

The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty people of the earth languish.

!!!...The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.!!!!..[cloning included.]

Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.

" Worship God!" And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[e] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

We must remain faithful during the trial; the great Tribulation before his return.

 2012/7/1 10:18

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 Re: The thought of the clone: A sign of the times. The end is near.

BrotherTom, I hope that by attempting to elevate God I was not seen as diminishing the seriousness of this issue!

I was not aiming to address the GM baby event, but rather the Christian response to it - how we read it in our minds, what we mull over, etc. There are many examples in scripture were the threat of evil loomed so large that God became overshadowed in the people's imagination. Remember those giants in Canaan? Humans were the size of grashoppsers in comparison to the "giants". How tall does that make them? The size of the problem in our minds relates closely to the size of our God.

I'm sure that if I could have seen a graph depicting the mental images which I sensed as I read the responses, I'd have to say, that God is a tiny, impotent blip in comparison. Should this not be of concern?

A thought: One of our challenges might be to decide if God can save people who came about by wicked human tampering. Does our debt of love extend to them too?(Rom. 14)

What are our thoughts on those women who in their desire for children (a blessed desire!!) let their bodies be exploited?

There's a lot going on here - but how can we take the time to learn the implications, etc if anxiety-laden emotional responses keep on short circuiting our ability to be thoughtful on the matter.

This is merely my reflection based on a general observation of modern Christianity and their pattern of response to perceived evil. It stirs me to value more deeply the need for faith growth - ie, ability to trust God. (1 Pet. 1:6)



 2012/7/1 15:15Profile

Joined: 2004/8/19
Posts: 112

 Re: World's 1st Genetically Modified babies born

I don't see the logic in the gene-modifying or gene-selecting.

Mankind always looking into the future and scientific advancement.

It would do mankind a whole lot better, just speaking at a secular level here, to try a little food-selecting. Even though our genes be perfect, our lifestyle is a mess from work habits to eating habits.

But maybe the problem is that curious man is always wanting to know more.

Just some thoughts...


 2012/7/7 15:43Profile

Joined: 2011/3/18
Posts: 9

 Re: World's 1st Genetically Modified babies born

This is insane!

Gbanaibolou-Faith Burutolu

 2012/7/7 16:17Profile

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