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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.

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ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.

In a discussion among intelligent people, presumably Christians, it should be understood that what ever statement anyone writes, they are stating their opinion.

Everyone who reads a post can either choose to agree, or disagree, or ignore, that opinion. As Christians, we should not have to fear of expressing our mind and heart.

And I was working hard on a very nice amicable response to the man who ultimately condemned my view, when I discovered the thread was killed.

If Apostle Paul was censored, we all would have a lot less to talk about. Not That I'm anything like Paul, certainly not. But why should I be censored on a topic I know well. A topic which I had already demonstrated to be true. A topic I had more to share, as to God's purpose doing it as He did. So my thread is incomplete, and I feel terrible about that.

And somebody said I was a Calvinist, I do not recall ever reading anything Calvin wrote.

The views I did expound was held by Augustine, and before Him by many early Church fathers, Including the Apostle Paul. And I came by it by reading the scriptures in their Greek and Hebrew texts.

And insult added to injury, somebody requested that I be kicked off this site today, for expressing my Christian Views.

I wish to all, God's many blessings.

See you there, or in the air!

Sincerely,

ArtB


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/6/27 20:11Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 38276
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re: I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.

Brother,

We simply on this site have had a policy for many years to try and stop when possible discussions on the topic of Calvinism and Armininism. We have not seen them bear fruit but arguing and divisions. This site is not the platform for these things, we try to encourage more practical christianity in holiness, discipleship, prayer, revival, etc.

So our heart is to see brothers from both view points have fellowship on this site on the things of God.

I hope that makes it more clear that it is a heart of love and love for the church that we desire the unity of the brethren.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/6/27 20:23Profile









 Re:

ArtB,

For what it's worth I know the frustration you are feeling.

Years ago I used to try and get christians to "see" the truth on this subject. However I learned that certain topics just create more division.

For me the two biggies are the once saved always saved or you can lose your salvation.

Also the timing of the return of Christ.

I believe the truth on both of these can be known but I also know that with many the discussion will just go south fast.

So I do not debate them at all.

In private if someone wants to talk about it I will. But if they choose to believe different than me fine. I drop it.

On this I agree with Greg

Quote:
practical christianity in holiness, discipleship, prayer, revival, etc.




Hope you will rejoin at some point.
God bless,john




 2012/6/27 20:36









 Re: I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.


The views I did expound were held by...many early Church fathers, Including the Apostle Paul.


I always find this particular argument rather.... interesting, as it's usually those on both sides of the issue that will claim this.

Next it's usually the Holy Spirit who told them their view is correct... just like He told the guys with the opposing viewpoint that they're correct as well.

These reasons are why these topics have been marked by the administrators as a bit of a hot spot, and we've been asked not to bring them up. As usually even by bringing them up, we find some way to throw mud at the other side.

 2012/6/27 22:47









 Re: I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.

ArtB, Admin Greg is correct and there have been such warnings posted to discourage such discussions and to be frank, those subjects are never edifying at all.

It's not you that he is insulting, nor is it anything that you might have said, the blame is solely on the subject chosen only.

So don't take this to heart, dismiss it and carry on with posting, I like what you have to say on these threads. So don't be discouraged dear brother your apart of this family and we need you to be here.

Thanks

 2012/6/28 0:21
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re: I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it.

Hi! ArtB

Yes, I also wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of Member 'Approved' saying:
"... dear brother your apart of this family and we need you to be here."
I'm kinna' new here but I got to like your Posts an' stuff very quickly. I was especially touched by the mentioning of your personal circumstances.
While it's true that I did not always agree with your view of things, it really didn't fizz on me much. After all, I'm sure that what I have Posted here isn't always finding many in agreement either. :)
Wheeze here tuh freely discuss tings an' I want yuh tuh stay an' keep discussin' wit us.
So, please ArtB, like Member 'Approved' has said: "we need you to be here".


==========================
Re: I've been censored, i am NOW at peace with it. |
ArtB, Admin Greg is correct and there have been such warnings posted to discourage such discussions and to be frank, those subjects are never edifying at all.

It's not you that he is insulting, nor is it anything that you might have said, the blame is solely on the subject chosen only.

So don't take this to heart, dismiss it and carry on with posting, I like what you have to say on these threads. So don't be discouraged dear brother your apart of this family and we need you to be here.

Thanks


==========================

 2012/6/28 1:11Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

I am glad the discussion of that topic is banned. I have never seen it bear good fruit and it only leads to more confusion (for me anyway). Believe what you do and leave it alone. Approved said it best in his post before mine. And Everstosama is correct also in saying that both sides make similar claims.

 2012/6/28 3:10Profile









 Re:

Aw, come back, Brother Art. Don't you love us anyway? How could you not? :)

I'm a "foreknowledger" but I don't want you to leave neither.

You're wanted and loved here.

Ann



1Jn 5:1-3 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

 2012/6/28 21:55
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by EverestoSama on 2012/6/27 19:47:30

[Qoute ArtB]The views I did expound were held by...many early Church fathers, Including the Apostle Paul.




evertosama wrote:
Quote:
I always find this particular argument rather.... interesting, as it's usually those on both sides of the issue that will claim this.



Some months ago, SermonIndex produced a long list of topics concerning the Eary Church Fathers views. Among them was a considerable list of the Early Church Fathers that accepted Predestination.

If i recall correctly, evertosama, Paul had a lot to say about predestination, and I did quote him on it. I thought that what He wrote, He also meant.

How could all the numerous Bible Prophecies in the OT concerning the Messiah, His life and death, in astonishing detail, and numerous other prophecies of the OT that were very detailed and fulfilled, and many being fulfilled right before our eyes in our time, did not God predestined them to occur.

Such as:

Rachel weeping for her children (the slaughter of the infants in Bethlehem predicted and fulfilled) (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:17,18).

Was God evil to predict and allow these children 2 years and under to be slaughtered. No - of course not. Because God is the author and can and will restore their lifes.

Has not God accomplished all He says He will do. That is Predestination. He determined it will happen well before it happened. It certainly was not a lucky guess.

Ephesians 1:3-5

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the Cosmos, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will."

Do these Biblical words mean anything?

What about the ones that do not get saved? Are they Predestined to being in Hell forever? Is this the problem?

I do not know that. Perhaps they are the spawn of the devil (Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, etc.), and they end up with Satan.

Or, Maybe they get saved in the ages to come. We only know it part. The Revelation of John had merely two more votes than the Revelation of Peter when the books of the Bible were determined in the 4th Cebtury AD. Peter's Revelation indicates that all people eventually get saved. Both of these books are too difficult for me to understand. I simply trust God in all things.

evertosama wrote: [Quote]Next it's usually the Holy Spirit who told them their view is correct... just like He told the guys with the opposing viewpoint that they're correct as well.


I never make that claim. My views come from reading the Bible and they are my opinion of what I read. And I could be wrong, I am simply sharing what I believe.

Anyone is free to disagree with, and I respect their views and their right to express them. I tend to write what I believe, and when someone presents their view that differs from mine, I respect that. I believe in freedom of expression as long as it is civil. And if we disagree, we disagree. Thankfully we are saved by the blood covering of Jesus, and not because our knowledged is perfect.
the perfect Paschal Lamb.

I had enough of censorship when I was a Catholic, when I became aware of Catholic Doctrine that simply was not supported by the Bible. We are not saved by their sacraments, repetitious prayers does not please God, we are saved by the Blood atonement of Jesus Christ, our paschal Lamb. Jesus actually did have brothers and sisters, who were born from Mary. etc.

evertosama wrote:[Quote]These reasons are why these topics have been marked by the administrators as a bit of a hot spot, and we've been asked not to bring them up. As usually even by bringing them up, we find some way to throw mud at the other side.


If any thing I wrote made you think I was throwing mud at anyone, please bring it to my attention and I will apologize for doing so. By 'mud' I assume you mean sophistical responses.














_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/6/29 2:50Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

Quote:
by sermonindex on 2012/6/27 17:23:01 wrote:

Brother,

We simply on this site have had a policy for many years to try and stop when possible discussions on the topic of Calvinism and Armininism. We have not seen them bear fruit but arguing and divisions. This site is not the platform for these things, we try to encourage more practical christianity in holiness, discipleship, prayer, revival, etc.

So our heart is to see brothers from both view points have fellowship on this site on the things of God.

I hope that makes it more clear that it is a heart of love and love for the church that we desire the unity of the brethren.



I understand what you are saying and I will follow your advice.

I know very little of Calvin or Arminin. I Have not read their works. I do not know them.

I really can not say anything more except that when that day comes, we will know, even as we have been known, and our joy will be complete.

For now, all we can do is Love, Love, Love, and then love some more.

I thank you Greg for explaing the situation.


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/6/29 3:30Profile





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