His ways are so much greater than ours, that unless HE allows
us to understand by HIS grace we are totally without hope,but thank GOD that JESUS humbled HIMSELF so we could receive this
Great Salvation!!!!!!!

_________________
RITCHIE MOSS

Well Ritchie, it is most certainly true, even the BEST shows from the 1950s, 60s, and 70s- back when things were still clean were completely Godless shows: NO mention of God or prayer in any of them, except in an irreverent,casual, or mocking way. Shows like the Brady Bunch, Family Affair, Hazel, Rawhide, and others...no acknowledgment of God and His authority over the affairs of men, no reference to church (unless of course it was Catholic, then it was a positive reference usually but true Christianity is always mocked), and no turning to prayer as a source of power, answer, or comfort when times get tough. Just humanism (aka man worship) and if religion was ever portrayed positively it was only in reference to the man worship and ritualistic system known as Catholicism. It is clear, EXTREMELY clear, that all Hollywood is EXTREMELY anti-God. And Satanic: there are even several Hollywood actors who have been named as friends of former Church of Satan leader Anton LaVey. But all this is to be expected, of course, since Hollywood's god is 1. money and 2. debauchery&fornication.

But i expect that one day just the right earthquake will come to California...

The beginning of the post I was able to grasp in full. The example given with "Leave It To Beaver" is probably a poor example.

It doesn't matter if the show never said God or mentions prayer, what it did show was what kids need to know today, like forgiveness which is godly. Though the word God wasn't used, but His attributes are.

Kids today are shown violence and how to get back if someone hurts you. The shows today is all about self, there are no sitting down at the end of the show to teach Timmy the good and moral thing to do. In todays culture, they don't want you to know what is good or moral, they want you to do whatever you think is good and moral. Some peoples good is getting plastered on Friday night, some peoples morals are "I am not hurting anyone by doing what I am doing".

I agree the entertainment industry which encompasses both Christian and Secular will zap the life of God out of us. I know for a fact that if one is going to live a life of dedication toward God, the popcorn and movie will have to go. No one is saying we can't watch it, but there is a price to pay to maintain the presence of God in our lives. The more we want God the more these things will fall away from our lives. It may sit in the corner of our living room collecting dust, but we have no desire to turn it on.

There is only one movie of all time that I hold to be sacred and not easily to put in to watch, "The Passion of the Christ". IMHO

QUOTE: "In todays culture, they don't want you to know what is good or moral, they want you to do whatever you think is good and moral."==APPROVED




Approved, while i don't quite agree with everything you are saying, i do somewhat agree. I think the Leave it to Beaver was a good example that he gave. On the other hand, in my own life, such shows as that one and Brady Bunch were a GODSEND to me as an abused child in a family filled with strife and authoritarianism--without them i may never have known what a GOOD and HEALTHY family should behave like! In those shows the parents TALKED to their children rather than beating them, screaming & yelling at them, and the parents were calm, sensible, RATIONAL, loving, compassionate, and KIND. They reasoned with their children and discussed things and gave APPROPRIATE discipline when necessary. So although the shows are/were of the world, they DO/DID have some value. From them i learned PROPER parenting skills, recognizing from them that the ways of my parents were NOT the way to behave. And believe you me, it is a good thing i had that healthy example, as i babysat many children from the time i was age 12 and on up. Furthermore, during the one hour or half hour a family show like those was on i could at least escape from my own world for that one half hour. Those shows were a blessing to me, despite their flaws.

And yes, you are right, today's tv trash is loaded with relativism.

The Andy Griffith Show... church was mentioned quite frequently, and so was God. Andy could be seen on the front porch picking the guitar and singing a gospel song.

At least there was one show.

Krispy

Direct This thread into our love of worldly entertainment in our "Worship" services. Many Choirs, both white and black, don't feel like they have touched God until everyone is "Rocking Out". I have seen young ladies, tightly clad, dance erotically while joining in.

In more conservative circles, the singing of hymns can produce the same affect. Because you mouth the words in Unison, there is a bolstering up of your identity in God, kind of like a huge War Cry. Possibly the best example of this is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and their magnificent Organs and music.

They sing the exact same hymns as the Reformed Methodist Brethren, as the Baptist's, but with more affect, creating an entertainment value off the charts, and world renown. The one minor detail; they sing to the devil, as they arouse the soul to proclaim their orthodoxy.

I have seen the circus introduced for the young; literally. I have seen Rock and Roll electric guitars playing the grind, while worshipping something or another.

"Choir Practice"....and "Band Practice" are a requirement for most churches, to perfect a spirit of Professionalism within the WORSHIP TEAM, and only the most skilled, and most moving singers are selected to lead.

Often, the Choir itself is all that performs, and perform they do. The Pastor often makes a comment about how well they did, or how moving they were, endorsing this practice as pleasing to God.

The Romantic Siren song is now the rage, especially for the "Emergent" church singing dramatic and longful, soulish lyrics to Jesus,... simply transferring our human longings and Eros emotions while expressing affection to God as Worship.

It is not, but all of the above do release something like it; a soul powered Religious experience that makes you FEEL good; LIKE the Holy Spirit may sometimes do and Just like a sorrowful Hollywood love movie may do. It releases the affect of the soul, that God made for us to enjoy, but in itself, is Earthbound.

Then we come to the orator, the MESSAGE, the speech, the preaching. If this is not done with the entertainment value as to it's mesmerizing and deep qualities , it is not done well. "Good Message" ...Pastor" , and then, at the peak of either the emotions flowing from the message, or at the height of the humbled heart after a flood of soul love is released from the Band, Choir , or Singer;... THE OFFERING AND TITHES.

In one AOG church I attended, the Pastor operated a movie with a built in sermon, that was of course pre-recorded with points where he "clicked" it to the next scene, While adding his canned commentary. There was even a spot, very moving indeed, to ask for the tithe.

It is all part of the system, and is aptly used for Recruitment; Numbers attained; HAPPY PEOPLE GIVE MONEY. [ ask Joel ] I have heard this a thousand times; "OH! The Worship was so good over there! That's what I go for!" Hmmmm. Often a special singer or band is brought in, a BIG NAME to entertain, and this draws more crowds, and more success.

Then "Christian TV"......and it's monstrosities that bellow out their greed as a Gospel path. Very entertaining indeed.

"For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!".....and we do....and we are quite well entertained.

Let us worship Him in Spirit and in Truth and receive the least of the brethren while we do so.

Krispy wrote:

"The Andy Griffith Show... church was mentioned quite frequently, and so was God. Andy could be seen on the front porch picking the guitar and singing a gospel song.

At least there was one show."

Hallelujah! You beat me to the punch. Just the other day I was watching an episode where Andy & Barney were harmonizing "There is a Fountain" while working in the courthouse.

Please y'all, you can't really criticise shows like "Andy Griffith" or "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" and the like because they didn't preach the gospel message during the program. They were wholesome and innocent shows. Quite frankly, I would not want them to be preaching the gospel message during the program. That wasn't their purpose. The days of those types of shows are long gone, I am afraid.

_________________
Todd

This brings up an interesting thought... what does the Christian do about art? There are many good points being made on this thread, and certainly most "entertainment" today is worthy of being buried in a landfill somewhere never to be seen again. No argument there.

But Christians want to see the gospel preached in every show, every song, every painting, every poem... and I think thats not necessarily a good thing.

God is an artistic God. He was gracious enough to give some of that artistic ability to the human race. We are the only ones on the planet who can appreciate art. Plants dont. My dog doesnt give a rip about a painting some artist has done.

We are different. God gave some the ability to create art, whether it be paintings, poetry, literature, music... and even acting. I think everything we do should be to the glory of God, but what does that look like? Does every painting need to look like a Thomas Kincaide painting with a pastel colored church in it? Thats pretty much what his paintings were... and they were marketed to Christians... and he died recently from drugs and alcohol.

Does every public performance of music need to conclude with an alter call? Does a concert have to be an evangelistic crusade... or is it possible to simply enjoy music for what it is?

Can we simply go to a museum and enjoy works of art even if the artist may not be a believer? If the artwork is not obscene can we look at it and enjoy the creativity of the thing?

Can we read a book that isnt a treatise on Calvinism vs Armenianism? Can we enjoy a good novel even if it doesnt contain the "Romans Road to Salvation"? Or is that sinful?

I just finished the first draft of a novel... and guess what... it's not a "Christian" novel in the sense that it's all about Christians, or Amish people. It's kinda gritty, not mushy or "inspirational". It may not even be good, I dont know. I'll leave that up to the reader. But the point is that I did not feel compelled to write an "evangelistic" novel. I found it to be very liberating to just write. I wrote it to be enjoyed. Period.

Again... no argument with me about the topic of this thread, ok. The TV is trash. Movies are worse. There is a lot of music out there that needs to be thrown out and burned.

But we take it too far sometimes and forget that God has granted certain members of the human race with the ability to create and be artistic. Even if the artist may not be a believer we can look at the art itself and see God's hand in it. Look at the music of Mozart! What an immense talent and what beautiful and creative music he wrote... and what a heathen. He lived and died like a rock star. But who can deny that he was a musical genius?

We can see God's hand in art, much like we can see it in nature. Walk thru the woods sometime. Nature is what it is, and to those of us who have eyes to see we can see God all over nature. But it's subtle. It's there, but it doesnt bash your head in with it. We see God's glory in nature... and we can see God's glory in art. Even when it's subtle or even hidden. It's there.

I also think that if we pressure or force every Christian artist, actor, painter or writer to blatantly present the gospel in every single work of art they do... we would end up with stacks and stacks of contrived "art" that isnt very artistic at all.

All I am saying is that before we pull out our sword and begin cutting down all art and entertainment as evil if it doesnt present the gospel or an evangelistic message followed by an alter call... let's engage our brains, put on our thinking hats and consider this.

Krispy

How many times did you after having just watched a leave it to beaver episode, ever say: you know, that Ward Cleaver needs to get right with GOD? Answer: none. Question: why not?

This is why: I never associated Ward with being a sinner,because sinners are always immoral, and Ward was anything but immoral.
And now we are back to the main point I am attempting to make, GODLINESS is not synonymous with morality.

Ask yourself this, is a high moral standard, that is totally dissociated from GOD, what we want our children to embrace? Because if it is, remember this, morality is subject to environment or beliefs, what is accepted in one arena is not in another. Subjective morality is an open playing field for satan. The homosexual community has a moral standard too, it's just not based on the absolute truth of GODS word!!

A quote from a sermon I heard, I don't recall the preachers name:
“ In America it is harder to get people lost than to get them saved”

The point being, people in the western culture have a hard time accepting they are sinners, and I believe one of the main reasons for such thinking is this subtle influence of being raised on what I call
GODLESS morality. I am as moral as the next guy, so I don't need
to repent!

In my humble opinion, morality that is thought by what ever means,
without accrediting it to GOD'S law, is far more damaging to our society than any show that is obviously defying GOD'S word. Even if the standard is one thought in GOD'S word, we must always accredit it to GOD lest we be in danger of exalting our own goodness, which GOD calls filthy rags!

_________________
RITCHIE MOSS

The problem with people not seeing themselves as sinners is not some Western thing... the Bible addresses it. It happens in every country, every culture, every tribe, every tongue. People are blind to their sin until it is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.

Americans tend to look at themselves as God's favorite people, that is true. Christians in America (serious Christians, I mean) tend to see all these problems as unique to the American experience. I dont think they are. I think sin is sin, and blindness to it is universal. The Bible tells me so.

Krispy