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Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA


Recently someone posted an unscriptural, unbiblical article claiming that AMERICA won't have to worry about dealing with or suffering under the AntiChrist. Usually such people are of the pentacostal "Rapture" camp who believe that all Christians are going to be wisked away before it happens, as if Jesus is going to make THREE comings instead of only a Second Coming. But this poster made it sound as if he thinks that ALL of America is or shall be Christian, which it has NEVER been (even our government and the US Constitution was NOT set up by Christians, as Ben Franklin was a Universalist Unitarian, George Washington was a FreeMason, Jefferson was not a Christian, and so on. If anyone feels i am in error in this statement please feel free to correct me.)In any case, the title said it all.

I did not bother to read the article because the title itself told me all i needed to know: the post was unscriptural. Therefore i would like to point out two things, one being that it is written, "...and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear ."==REV.13:6 Please notice the word "ALL".

The second thing is a solemn warning to people who post things about the AntiChrist or last days: please read the Bible first before you post. When you post such things that contradict what the Book of Revelations clearly states you run perilously close to falling under judgment, for it is also written, "18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."==Rev.22:18-19 And yes, this means gloom and doom.

 2012/6/17 16:33Profile

 Re: Warning!

Trekker are you talking about the article I posted?
Cuz if you are you have just shown how you mis- represnt things. And thats being mild. You could also be bearing false witness about your neighbor on this forum.

Think about it.

 2012/6/17 17:15

 Re: Warning! Yes! But hope too!

The difficulty in speaking about The Antichrist lies in the problem of actually knowing who he really is. In Revelations Antichrist is a man. In John's letter it is a spirit which "has already come into the world". In the same way when we speak of that time of Antichrist we must distinguish between the spirit of antichrist which is allready in the world and that man's appearing. It is his appearing which is characterised by ALL those who dwell on the earth being oppressed by him, especially the saints. Until that man actually comes into visibility declaring himself to be God, and thereby denying Christ our Lord, who came in the fullness of God, it isn't possible to apply the ALL of Revelations. The ALL is only at his appearing.

Is there hope for America! Yes. But only through those who accept the coming judgement of God on America who having prepared themselves for persecution or tribulation are able to be witnesses in America to a good effect. Faithfulness in this sense will mean forsaking even ones own life in order to serve God in that hour of judgement. The benefit will come to many who seeing these faithful ones willingly suffer for the sake of Christ, who will themselves have an opportunity to believe and be saved in that same hour. If this judgement of God precedes the Man of Sin, even Antichrist himself, then there will be no issue with false prophecies or posts on SI in this regard. It is a matter of knowing the times.

As for the founding of America. It began with a few brethren who landed on its shores in the 16th century who themselves are known by name. Their place and origin is known and their reason for fleeing to the shores of America are known as well. Where they met in Lincolnshire in England. Who they met with. Who preserved them and even who chased them across the Lincolnshire marshes to Boston in order to kill them or else imprison them is known. The buildings they met in and the names of those who were the Lord's strong arm are all known. From the Old Hall in Gainsborough to the prison in Boston are all known and still visible today. These are the men and women who founded a colony in America in the name of Christ. Their efforts have now come to what we see today.

 2012/6/17 19:11

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37636
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


I recently wrote an article 100% in the different direction of this brother, I actually wondered if he read my article and wrote his in response:

Hated by All Nations For The Testimony of Christ

There is a coming great persecution upon Christianity in the west and other protected pockets in the world.

In places where the has been a protected Gospel witness, there will come such a sweeping persecution that even if it were told before of what would happen no one would believe it. You might ask how do you know that this is going to happen? I do not claim to have a vision, revelation or any special spiritual knowledge to say these things rather as I have read through Matthew 24 and other clear prophetic passages in the bible, it is very clear there will be a world-wide hatred of Christians in the end times.

Our Lords words are painfully clear and poignant as they were written 2000 years ago:

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.” (Matthew 24:9-11)

As we read the Scriptures carefully and slowly we will be shocked to find truths that modern preachers, ignore and with dispensational theologies confuse the masses by stating these words do not apply to us as Christians.

Yet the truth is that these words do apply to Christians of all ages and they more readily apply to us whom these Scriptures could see their fulfilment.

The one particular phrase sheds light into the awful occurrences that will prevail in the end times:

“…you will be hated by all nations because of me.” (Matthew 24:9)

Notice our Lord Jesus states “all nations”, not some nations or not even America and Israel will be exempt.

They will all be haters of those who follow Jesus Christ and will put to death these out of hatred of all that true Christianity stands for. America persecuting and hating those who name the name of Christ? Yes, it will surely happen.

Yet our Lord further speaks of something even ore controversial with our modern evangelical mind:

“many will turn away from the faith…” ( (Matthew 24:10)

In the earlier ministry of Jesus Christ at one point in John 6 there is a very large crowd following Him. Perhaps even the largest crowd that followed the master in those days. It is very interesting to see Jesus’s repines to such interest in His claims and power. His response was to preach a hard saying, ” Jesus said to them, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.’” (John 6:53).

He basically said “its all in or nothing” either you are fully committed to me or you have no part with me.

Such a radical Gospel and discipleship was not in their plans of incorporating Jesus into their lives. And the sad response John gives in his Gospel:

“From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” (John 6:66)

They stopped following Him.

They gave up on the road to discipleship and went back to fashioning a god of their own making in their own likeness. And such is what the Lord says: “many” (more then just a few), will “turn away.” They will deny the Lord that bought them and go back to an life of living for self.

Do you believe this is possible for yourself?

When the pressures of persecution for the Name of Christ and an unwarranted hatred comes against you simply because you adore and worship Jesus Christ. Will you be able to stand in that day?

It will be easy to follow the multitudes, the “many” who will be turning away from the faith. Yet our Lord desires we stay true to His calling and Name by His grace. He states to the church of Philadelphia: “I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.” (Revelation 3:8) Also in the city of Pergamum: “Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.” (Revelation 2;13).

May God find us with these faithful churches that happily and with hope endured much for the kingdom of God and do not allow compromise and lukewarmness to allow them to drift away from being bold for the Lord.

This falling away is shown in (2 Thessalonians 2:3) “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.”

May God preserve us in that day and allow us to ruthlessly cling to Jesus Christ as our hope and salvation and be willing to bear the lose of all things for His name sake.

Our great security in Christ is never at jeopardy as we continue to abide with Him daily.

Sitting at His feet and learning of Him, the great Shepard of the sheep will keep them. Let us stay close to our Master and none of these things will befall us. But let these words bring fear to our souls also to pray for strength for these coming days and to do the will of the Father and live.

“Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.” (1 John 3:13)

Now 2000 years later let us not either be surprised that the entire world system will hate us who call ourselves after the Name of Christ. Be valiant for His testimony, suffering and martyrdom will soon be not abstract theology but practical reality. May we learn of the Lord now how to endure for that time ahead. His “grace is sufficient” (2 Corinthians 12:9). And He will bear us up in that day for His glory sake. Amen.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/6/17 19:17Profile


I recently wrote an article 100% in the different direction of this brother, I actually wondered if he read my article and wrote his in response:

Greg if the brother you are talking about is me,my name is John, and wonder no more. There are alot of persecution post lately on this forum so I was just adding another possibilty for consideration. if you are talking about Walid I do not know the answer to that.

I am no stranger to biblical prophecy study. Been doing it for 25 years. I have learned that many have different views on what will happen. in the 80's and early 90's the pretrib rapture had such a hold on American christianity in genearal that no other option could be heard without condemnation for even suggesting that christians would suffer under Antichrist. Thankfully that has changed a bit with the proliferation of more christsians being willing to declare what they beleive.

In regards to A coming "persecution" on American christians. Obviously it can happen. J edwin orr speeks about a time in America when christianity was about to be all but destroyed. Yet some ministers committed to pray and a new blaze of revival turned back the tide. Where sin abounded grace was able to abound in that situation.

Can this happen again?

I do not know. I would hope it would. When God put it on your heart to hold a revival conference back in 2008 I believe that was part of laying the groundwork for a great awakening in this land.

I have many tell me Gods gonna judge thats the only way to get our attention. I agree that may be but unless that person can say God told me directly then it is just based on their understanding of scripture.

Presenting Walids article was just to present another view to consider. I am not saying it is "the" view we must hold.

 2012/6/17 19:54

 Re: Warning!

Constitution was NOT set up by Christians

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Establish Justice!

Insure Domestic Tranquility!

Provide For the Common Defence!

Promote General Welfare!

Secure the Blessings of Liberty to Ourselves and to our Posterity!

Sounds Christian to me, it also looks like something out of the book of Acts.

 2012/6/17 20:00

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York


The United States is a post-Christian nation. Our Government and the public education systems, and for the most part, most of our mass media systems, are run by Secular Humanists, whom constantly oppose Jesus Christ and His Church.

As for the rapture, if it comes soon, Great. If not, they who would behead us because we are Christian are most welcome to take my head away. I would no longer have need of it at that time. One swing of the Axe and I will be with the LORD forever.

If they burn me alive, this suffering too is only for a very short time. Plus the body will go into shock.

I agree with Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart who wrote:

"It is a great consolation for me to remember that the Lord, to whom I had drawn near in humble and child-like faith, has suffered and died for me, and that He will look on me in love and compassion."

And, Speaking of Jesus and salvation, Mozart wrote::

"As death, when we come to consider it closely, is the true goal of our existence, I have formed during the last few years such close relations with this best and truest friend of mankind, that his image is not only no longer terrifying to me, but is indeed very soothing and consoling! And I thank my God for graciously granting me the opportunity...of learning that death is the key which unlocks the door to our true happiness."

Arthur Biele

 2012/6/17 20:32Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497


"If not, they who would behead us because we are Christian are most welcome to take my head away. I would no longer have need of it at that time."


Seriously, I consider beheading a barbaric method of killing. No two ways about it. However, one day I was reading in Revelation 20 where it talks about the thousand year reign...Verse four grabbed my attention. Know who Jesus will resurrect to reign WITH HIM? Those that were beheaded!

Revelation 20:4 NASB

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Soooo, if you want to reign with Jesus in the millennium you have to beheaded. This will earn you a privilege, an honor, and a responsibility.

What do ya think?

Sandra Miller

 2012/6/18 7:24Profile


our government and the US Constitution was NOT set up by Christians, as Ben Franklin was a Universalist Unitarian, George Washington was a FreeMason, Jefferson was not a Christian, and so on.

Wow... someone needs a history lesson. Um, there were more than 3 people who founded this country. Wasington fought the war. Jefferson articulated the purpose. Why dont you take a look at the words of Patrick Henry? Or John Adams? etc?

Of course not everyone who had a hand in founding this country was of your particular brand of whatever it is you believe. (And if you're a Pentecostal... that didnt even exist at that time)

Now I'm not drinking the David Barton Kool-Aid when it comes to American history, but I do know enough to know that it was very much founded by many Bible believing Christians, and the Word of God can be found all through-out their writings.

Thats just a simple fact.


 2012/6/18 8:41

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York



our government and the US Constitution was NOT set up by Christians, as Ben Franklin was a Universalist Unitarian, George Washington was a FreeMason, Jefferson was not a Christian, and so on.

At the time the U.S. Constitution was established, Ben Franklin was a Deist, Thomas Jefferson was a Christian, George Washington was a Christian.

During His Presidency, Thomas Jefferson authorized Bibles be distributed to the Indians, but he also ordered that the Miracles of Jesus be eliminated. After his presidency, he associated with Deists and he gradually became a deist.

Ben Franklyn was a Deist and he became a traditional Christian later in life.

Looking at all the signers of the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781), the US Constitution, and the first Congress, a strong case can be made that 204 seperate individuals Founders were Christian.


And here is an URL with a rich amount of Just ow Christian our founding Fathers were.

Arthur Biele

 2012/6/18 11:18Profile

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