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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 GAYS AND LESBIANS

I have a question which asked on another part of the forum which I maybe should ask here. It seems that we as Christians tend to focus more on the sin of homosexuality (I'm not condoning it for it is a sin) than any other sin. Could it be because that is what is covered most by the media, or is it something else? Are we as adamant against other things such as fornication, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating etc or do we focus on homosexuality because it is not a sin that we commit? Should we not also be equally critical of our own lives and be equally conscious of our own sins?

any thoughts?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 11:26Profile









 Re: GAYS AND LESBIANS

Because it is one of the few sins that God calls an "abomination". Websters dictionary describes that as "extreme disgust and hatred". It is why God utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah from the face of the earth. It makes a mockery of God's creation (man and woman), and makes a mockery of His example of Christ's relationship to the church (marriage).

But the answer is not to go kill gays, or beat them to a pulp. We should show them the way to the Lord just as we would anyone else.

Does that help?

Krispy

 2005/2/11 11:34
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Because it is one of the few sins that God calls an "abomination". Websters dictionary describes that as "extreme disgust and hatred". It is why God utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah from the face of the earth. It makes a mockery of God's creation (man and woman), and makes a mockery of His example of Christ's relationship to the church (marriage).



It does help to understand it all but is it possible that we can focus so much on this one thing (not making light of it) that we also forget to condemn all other sins? Is it not hypocritical to condemn someone else's in while refusing to deal with your own?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 11:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Is it not hypocritical to condemn someone else's in while refusing to deal with your own?



Absolutely. As long as we live, tho, we will struggle with sin. The key is... we have to be humble enough to admit it. We cant condemn someone else's sin while justifying our own. But we also can not let our own weaknesses keep us from witnessing to others. If anything, we can use our weaknesses to show others how forgiving God is... if you understand what I mean.

Krispy

 2005/2/11 11:51
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

man you must be following me or something... :)

Quote:
Absolutely. As long as we live, tho, we will struggle with sin. The key is... we have to be humble enough to admit it. We cant condemn someone else's sin while justifying our own. But we also can not let our own weaknesses keep us from witnessing to others. If anything, we can use our weaknesses to show others how forgiving God is... if you understand what I mean.



Indeed you are correct. It seems to me that it is a fine line we must walk, condemning sin wherever it may be, in others or ourselves, I think dealing with sin in the latter is harder...Lately God has been making me more aware of my own sins and the importance of the confession of them. It's easier for Him to deal with them when I say what they are and it is quite liberating indeed.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 11:58Profile









 Re:

Naw... I just like ya.

Actually... I'm a stalker. 8-)

Krispy

 2005/2/11 12:01
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

*as I look over my shoulder...both shoulders*

SOMEONE HELP!!!! :-P

I've been learning a lot from the people on this forum and it has been good to interact with other brethren because this is one of the ways in which the holy spirit ministers to us. Through the testimonies of others and the revelations that God gives to each of us.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 12:08Profile
Brio
Member



Joined: 2005/2/11
Posts: 1


 Re: Hypocrisy?

James and John (Sons of Thunder),

I agree with you brother... we as the American church people do focus way too much on homosexuality and the condemnation of those practicing it. And it is a sin, no doubt. As is greed- and the apostle Paul spoke just as harshly if not more harsh towards greed as he did homosexuality.

Ezekiel 16:49. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

On top of all this, I have heard it said that the church in its treatment of homosexuals is "Beating up those already wounded." Probably 95% of homosexuals that I have met are victims of severe abuse or mistreatment. These folks are already wounded by society. Are these not the very people Jesus would have dined with or been annoited by? I think the state of the church's relationship with the least of these can be measured by the likelihood that those shunned by society would feel inclined to run to us for help with full faith that they would be received full of grace and truth. We have the truth thing down, but woe to us Lord if we practice the latter while leaving the former undone!

Grace and peace to you.

 2005/2/11 12:23Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re: Gays & Lesbians

Ironman,

You have a valid question, and have made some interesting points. I have asked the same questions, and have more or less been rebuked for doing so. It “seems” the only time I ever hear the word (abomination) is in reference to Homosexuality. In my little part of the world (Missouri and Kansas) not unlike other States, it is a hot-topic always guaranteed to arouse fierce dialog. Just this week as I departed a local shopping center I picked up a free local newspaper(I use that word generously) it is touted as an “alternative” paper, what caught my attention on the front cover was a woman with a Bible in her mouth!!

The article dealt with the Kansas Senate deciding that the State should be allowed to vote on this issue of gay marriage. The reporter who is sympathetic to the gay marriage issue made the statement “Christians actually believe that marriage is under attack from gay people-- instead of from half the straight people who currently abuse the privilege.”

This statement according to my limited research has been identified by the Barna Research Group, in their studies they have written:

[i]The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. [/i]

][i]Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage." [/i]


And so my point is, the mockery is not only coming from the Homosexual community. Not by a long shot!!

Allow me to include the thoughts of a former lesbian, after accepting Christ and her difficulty with “church people”,
[i]I wish christians would stop totem poling sins and treat everybody alike. They tend to put homosexuals on the bottom when it comes to being concerned about them, and on top of the pole when it comes to judging them as hopeless. I get tired of christians accepting converted adulters, prostitutes, alcoholics, maturbators, and then recoiling like vipers when homosexuals seek help. They seem on the verge of throwing up when they talk to me; they watch my every move; they eyeball and analyze me, looking for errors. They can’t forget my past, as if Jesus came into the world to save everybody but homosexuals. No wonder sin is driven underground. No wonder people with life-controlling habits tend to react violently. These troubled souls are degraded; scorn is heaped upon them by a Church that wants nothing to do with queers and faggots. We are so offended by their practices, we have made their sin so scandalous, we turn them into outcasts with no hope of return.”[/i]

Let me conclude by asking, are we reaching the homosexual with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Are we seeing lives transformed by the power of God?
Or, are we so disgusted by the sin that we are ignoring the need?

I am not sure,

In Christ,
tony


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Tony Sexton

 2005/2/11 12:26Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: homosexuality

Ezekiel 16:49. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were [b]arrogant[/b], [b]overfed[/b] and [b]unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy[/b]. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

I have looked at this verse many times. To me it shows that homosexuality is not the most detestable thing- it's the roots of it. The roots of our sins (including homosexuality) is pride, loving comfort more than what is right, and not caring about others.

If you look at it like this you can see that these "root" sins are apparent insomeone who has adopted the homosexual lifestyle. - but- you can also see these root sins in someone in bondage to anything else as well. I have seen these things in me.

In Him, chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/2/11 12:31Profile





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