The text is I Samuel 2:22-25, where Eli is confronting his two sons for their wickedness. Given that Eli confronts and admonishes them here in this passage i have always been a bit confused as to why GOD was so angry with Eli. Is it that Eli did not do ENOUGH to stop his sons? Or was there something specific he was 'spose to do according to his office at that time which he failed to carry out against his two sons? Or did GOD feel he did not rebuke them sternly enough or often enough? Why is it that GOD passed such serious judgement on ELI for his son's sins?Also, it is interesting to note that when Samuel became an adult and had sons of his own they became corrupt just like Eli's sons did. So apparently Samuel LEARNED Eli's bad parenting skills. ??? Why then did GOD allow Samuel to be left to be reared by Eli at all? It seems really sad to me. Samuel's own father was basically replaced by Eli and he thereby learned Eli's permissive?? parenting and another round of sons became corrupted. Would it not have been better if Samuel had only been left with Eli part time instead of from the time he was weaned to forever? Just ponderings and questions i always have when i read this book--about things that aren't fully explained. Wondering if anyone here has any insight to offer. I can't tell for sure from the text if Eli was guilty of permissive parenting or not...
Quote: "I can't tell for sure from the text if Eli was guilty of permissive parenting or not": It seems that this was the case- from Ch 3:"Then the Lord said to Samuel: Behold, I will do something in Israel at which both ears of everyone who hears it will tingle. In that day I will perform against Eli all that I have spoken concerning his house, from beginning to end. For I have told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knows, because his sons made themselves vile, and he did not restrain them. And therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Elis house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.As far as Samuel staying full time with Eli-- Hannah made a vow to the Lord that she kept. Things might have worked out differently had Samuel stayed with his own family, but Hannah had to keep her vow and leave the outcome to God. This, of course, is much easier said than done.
_________________Todd
But what was Eli supposed to do???? He was an old man already. Was he expected to wrestle them to the ground? Or was there a procedure in place for the office of the priests that he perhaps was not following in dealing with his corrupt sons? Perhaps he should have kicked them out of their positions? And if so, would they have obeyed him, given that they were already prone to using force to get what they wanted (i.e the cuts of meat from the Lord's offering).Yes i know all about Hannah's vow and all the rest. Have read this book many, many times. However, i am always distracted by the trauma it must have inflicted upon the little boy Samuel to be suddenly abandoned at such a young age by his parents and left with a virtual stranger for the rest of his life. I can't see a kid getting over that. So this is a distraction when i read this book and pretty much is all i can see in it.
Yeah-- I feel your pain Trekker. I have been reading thru the Bible chronologically this year and and am now in I Kings and there is much in the historical books that really make me shake my head. There is an awful lot of violence, which God condones-- even against children and many other things that I just have to leave alone.We have to just accept that God, if He is God, always makes the best choice. Maybe not in our eyes, but in His and with the big picture in mind.I have struggled much with a lot of stuff in the OT, but am just now maybe turning the corner in tryng not to figure everything out and just trusting.I have had other discussions with people who deal with diffcult passages in the OT by saying things like "maybe Moses didnt really hear from God and just made that up" (like the ordeal of the woman accused of adultery who is forced to drink contaminated water to see if she swells up) and maybe God really didnt tell Joshua to kill all the babies and stuff like that. But that is a dangerous road to go down.I know you know what I mean. As far as Eli is concerned, I think God was displeased with how he raised his sons and how he allowed them to get to that point. You are right-- Eli could not have done much to two grown men and if he tried they would not have listened. They were jerks. But then why didn't God just burn them like he did Nadab and Abihu? Eli's sons seemed to be a lot worse than they were. Oh yeah-- I almost forgot. God always makes the best choice.
But what was Eli supposed to do????
But then why didn't God just burn them like he did Nadab and Abihu? Eli's sons seemed to be a lot worse than they were. Oh yeah-- I almost forgot. God always makes the best choice.
_________________Robert Wurtz II
But what was Eli supposed to do???? He was an old man already
QUOTE: "I have had other discussions with people who deal with diffcult passages in the OT by saying things like "maybe Moses didnt really hear from God and just made that up" (like the ordeal of the woman accused of adultery who is forced to drink contaminated water to see if she swells up) and maybe God really didnt tell Joshua to kill all the babies and stuff like that. But that is a dangerous road to go down."==TMKIronically, i don't have a problem with that one. It wasnt really contaminated water, it was just formulated with spiritual power by it's ingredients so to speak and if the woman was innocent then she would be UNaffected. I dont recall the exact verse that was so i can't remember if the man was required to drink it too...(?) If not, that would be unfair i guess, but then, if you KNOW already by drinking the substance that the woman IS guilty (from the proof of the side effects) then you really wouldnt NEED to also prove the man guilty cuz that goeth without saying then; the accusation has been proven simply by the one.On killing pagan children...i tend to assume they were all possessed (OR POSSESSABLE)because those people groups were SO steeped in idolatries, human sacrifice, and sorceries that familiar spirits would have been passed down from generation to generation over the centuries. And the thing about demons is they can leave one person and jump to another. A good word for it is "time-share". Like what you have with condos. When one person in the family dies then the demons in that person have LEGAL access to the next person in the family lineage, like father to son, and so on. It's called INHERITANCE. All that belonged to the father gets passed down to the next oldest son, and so forth.Plus if God had let them live they would have wanted revenge at some point in the future upon the Israelites. But even worse than that is if the Israelites had let the children live and be their slaves or whathaveyou there would always have been the likelihood that they would eventually teach and seduce Israeli children into their pagan practices or beliefs. We see even today how hard it is to raise Christian children in a pagan world when there is even the slightest temptation or influence. But yea, if i had been the one told to kill BABIES, i really don't think i could follow through on that order. I guess we will have to wait to talk to David about that one and ask how he did it, etc
QUOTE: "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right? Eli, as High Priest had it within his own authority to order the servants among the Levites to remove these men from their positions by force. That's why it is called the High Priest. Like a judge calling to the bailif to remove a prisoner from a court room, Eli could have restrained his sons in the courts of the Lord. He did not? Why?"==ROBERTWOk, this is the answer i was looking for i think. Thank you. This confirms it then.Also, both you (RobertW) and OldJoe have given some very amazing teaching and insight here in your posts that i have never heard nor considered before. WOW. Scary stuff. That is not taught in churches.NOW, MY NEXT QUESTION IS: Since GOD said he would judge Eli forever and that there would not be any sacrifice for his sin FOREVER, does that mean he went to Hell??
NOW, MY NEXT QUESTION IS: Since GOD said he would judge Eli forever and that there would not be any sacrifice for his sin FOREVER, does that mean he went to Hell??