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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Question on Bible Interpretation (Mark 16:17-18)

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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Question on Bible Interpretation (Mark 16:17-18)



Quote:
What is the situation when it would ever be wise or godly to pick up a snake or drink poison?


I heard of man my preacher told about years ago, the man lived in country and worked construction and all his co-workers made fun of him for loving Jesus (and speaking in tongues), so they put a rattler in his truck and watched when he went to get in. They said he reached in and picked it up in Jesus’ name and threw it into the woods, walked back to the truck and drove home. No one messed with him again and I’m thinking a couple of men got saved from that.

The sad state of affairs is that people who have a flair for the fantastic have made a religion and denomination out of picking up snakes in order to prove their faith which is not Christ intended (I don’t believe).

My friend Wayneman said, “It’s a distraction to take our eyes off of Christ.” And it is.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2012/5/31 10:29Profile









 Re:

I know I'm going to get tarred and feathered for this, but here goes anyway. In the oldest existing copies of Mark, that whole last part doesn't even exist. The "long ending" is the what it's referred to.

I don't think that any of the things mentioned are outside of the realm of what God can and will empower a believer to do, as witnessed in the book of Acts with Paul as mentioned before. But I'm personally leery to follow the "long ending" of Mark and hail it as instruction, especially because of it's absence historically from the earliest manuscripts.

I mean, maybe the oldest ones had the long ending taken out. Subtracting from the Word of God is an EXTREMELY serious offense.

Then again, so is adding to it...

Not trying to shake anyone's faith in the Bible, or in its inerrancy, as I believe in it's full inerrancy, as long as it stays true to the original texts that left the apostles hands who wrote it.

Just a passing thought, that's all.

 2012/5/31 10:43
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I have always thought that the "serpents" and "scorpions" refer to the powers of darkness and not physical creatures.

Consider:

1Kgs 12:11 And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

We know God used the powers of darkness to chastise Israel and He does the same thing with Christians. Basically, one opens themselves up to an attack from the Enemy when they turn away from the Lord. He allows what we choose. If you choose to turn away from the Lord you are turning towards the powers of darkness. There is no neutral in this car. Only forward and reverse. There is no third option. "He that is not with me is against me".

Jesus said to the Pharisees that their father was the devil and religionists have always persecuted people of the Spirit. They are scorpions in the sense that they are ruled by evil spirits.

Ezek 2:6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns [be] with thee, and thou dost dwell among SCORPIONS: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house.

We know scorpions cannot talk but Ezekiel says to not be "afraid of their words". He is talking about people that have turned away from God. To turn away from God is not to remain neutral but rather to turn towards the powers of darkness and abide in them. When you abide in evil, you are ruled by evil spirits and you bring forth their fruit. The Spirit of God through Ezekiel calls them SCORPIONS.

The disciples knew what Jesus was talking about when He said, "I give you power over serpents and scorpions". Unfortunately, most of the Church does not know what this means. We think the battle is 100% with the flesh (at least many act like that). Our battle is not with flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities, etc (Eph 6).

Notice in this next verse that Jesus equates serpents and scorpions with "all the power of the enemy". He is not equating 2 physical creatures with our SPIRITUAL ENEMY.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Pilgrim


 2012/5/31 10:46Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Question on Bible Interpretation (Mark 16:17-18)


Found this about Mark 16.9-20....

The External Evidences

Looking first to the Greek manuscript witness, we see that it stacks up heavily in favor of the authenticity of these verses. Bruce Terry2 presents the following breakdown:

In Favor of Mark 16:9-20
Codex Alexandrinus (A) - (5th c. uncial, Byzantine in Gospels)
Ephraemi Rescriptus (C) - (5th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis (D) - (5th/6th c. uncial, Western)
K (9th c. uncial, Byzantine)
W (5th c. uncial, generally thought to be Caesarean in Mark 5:31-16:20)
X (10th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
Delta (9th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
Theta (9th c. uncial, Caesarean)
Pi (9th c. uncial, Byzantine)
f1 and f13 (total of 16 Caesarean texts, 11th-14th c.)
28 (11th c. minuscule, Caesarean)
33 (9th c. minuscule, Alexandrian)
565 (9th c. minuscule, Caesarean)
700 (11th c. minuscule, Caesarean)
892 (9th c. minuscule, Alexandrian)
1010 (12th c. minuscule, Byzantine)
The Byzantine textual set
Some of the Greek lectionaries

Opposed to Mark 16:9-20
Codex Sinaiticus (À) - (4th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
Codex Vaticanus (B) - (4th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
304 (12th c. minuscule, Byzantine)
2386 (11th c. minuscule, Byzantine)
Most of the Greek lectionaries

http://www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/markend.html


_________________
Lisa

 2012/5/31 10:48Profile









 Re:

Hey, I'm all up for it being in there. However, I won't be fully on board until they can find at least one with the long ending predating the earliest copies with the short ending.

There are just as many educated men and Bible interpreters who also doubt the validity of it's initial inclusion.

If God protects me from a snake bite the same way He did with Paul in order to further His kingdom and His glory, I'm all for it.

I won't be picking up snakes however to try and validate my position as a true believer, or because I feel that I just can based on the long ending of Mark.

 2012/5/31 10:52
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Quote:
Opposed to Mark 16:9-20
Codex Sinaiticus (À) - (4th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
Codex Vaticanus (B) - (4th c. uncial, Alexandrian)
304 (12th c. minuscule, Byzantine)
2386 (11th c. minuscule, Byzantine)
Most of the Greek lectionaries



By looking at what is opposed to it, pretty much tells you the verses are authentic.

Mark 16:9-20 contain powerful truths that the Enemy would like to nullify in the Believer's mind.

Everest:
Quote:
Hey, I'm all up for it being in there. However, I won't be fully on board until they can find at least one with the long ending predating the earliest copies with the short ending.



Are you willing to apply this to all scripture?

Why do people still think serpents and snakes in this context are physical?

Pilgrim

 2012/5/31 11:03Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote: "Why do people still think serpents and snakes in this context are physical?"

Because in the context, that is the way it reads. What is the "figurative" interpretation of drinking a deadly poison?

Since nothing in Mark 16:9-20 that is in conflict with the rest of the New Testament, it is at least as easy for me to believe a portion is missing between vv. 8 & 9 as it is to believe 9-20 is an addition.

Irenaeus, [A.D. 120-202] quoted Mark 16:19. So, whether or not it was part of Mark's original gospel, it must have existed quite early.




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Todd

 2012/5/31 12:28Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: everestosama


Quote:
EverestoSama wrote:
Hey, I'm all up for it being in there. However, I won't be fully on board until they can find at least one with the long ending predating the earliest copies with the short ending.



You are up for it being in there? Then please get ready to get on board! I really hate copying and pasting but here goes because I like this guy’s logic....
-------------------------------------------
***This week’s post is going to be done a little differently. One of the most attacked portions of Scripture is Mark 16:9-20. This portion of Mark is found in 618 extant manuscripts. The two manuscripts which they are not found in are the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, which are the two primary underlying manuscripts used in every modern version. This means that the evidence is overwhelming in favor of Mark 16:9-20, *****618 versus 2*****.

Keep in mind that the modern versions are based on 45 manuscripts out of 5255 which is less than 1% of all available manuscripts. This is why they can say that this portion of Mark is not part of Scripture because they reject 5210 of the 5255 manuscripts.

If your company promised you a salary of $5255 per month and then only paid you $45 per month, you would scream. So why don’t you scream when they do that to your Bible?

***They get away with doing this because they know Christians will never investigate anything relegating all their theological thinking to their Pastor or favorite theologian.

-----------------------------------------
Please read this in its entirety here...
http://www.scionofzion.com/mark_16_9_20.htm

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/5/31 13:11Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: Question on Bible Interpretation (Mark 16:17-18)

In Every scripture it is important for us to understand the spirit of the verse and not go by word meaning. Here Jesus is talking about Gifts that believers will be blessed with and also about the Characters of Believers. Speaking in Tongues is a gift, and Paul clearly says that not every believer will speak in tongues. Regarding picking up of snakes- the spirit behind this is, there will not be any fear of Death in the believers because Jesus has already defeated death. If you take literal meaning out of it, then why should believers pick only snakes? why not some other poisonous animal? This is just an example that Jesus gave to show that a true believer will not have fear of death.


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/5/31 13:42Profile









 Re:

Thanks for the links!

Also @TMK, if you have any links to the info about Irenaeus quoting it, I'd be interested to read up on it.

 2012/5/31 13:43





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