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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do men sin because they are sinners or are they sinners because they sin ???

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5835
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:
"Jesus is a good example during his incarnation, his divine nature is/was incapable of sinning. And His having a divine nature partly explains why he never sinned."

I disagree. I agree that Jesus was fully God and fully man. However, he emptied Himself of divine atributes at his incarnation (Phil 2:5-7).

If Jesus was truly incapable of sinning, then his temptations were meaningless.

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are —yet he did not sin." Heb 4:15

If Jesus was unable to sin, then he was not truly tempted as we are in every way.

This makes the fact that he never sinned all the more remarkable.


_________________
Todd

 2012/5/29 12:51Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: OK lets say rather than believing this in his heart he believed That truly what he was was a horse thief he could not help it, His great grandfather was a horse thief and it is in his DNA to be a horse thief even though on the one hand he believes he has been imputed with rightousness he also believes at the same time he is a horse thief it is in his blood. It will always be a part of him in this life because it is in his blood and at times it will control him and at times his new nature will control him.

Will this man still be tempted to be a horse thief??

Seems that the horse theif has two opposing forces at work and he needs deliverance as he not only has a enemy outside but a enemy within....

I am glad that when deliverance came to me, what I was delivered from was no longer apart of me it was cast out...

Edit:- I have to add this part...

I hope your not saying that we must accept the fact that we can never be changed. As I see that you say it will always be with him and will at times control him.. That is not the gospel message..

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised..

Deliverance is a removal of the cause of sin, not an accpetance of it...


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/5/29 13:09Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: TMK

RE: TMK wrote
"If Jesus was truly incapable of sinning, then his temptations were meaningless.

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are —yet he did not sin." Heb 4:15

If Jesus was unable to sin, then he was not truly tempted as we are in every way.

This makes the fact that he never sinned all the more remarkable."


Amen, I agree

 2012/5/29 21:54Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: murrcolr

RE: murrcolr wrote
"I am glad that when deliverance came to me, what I was delivered from was no longer apart of me it was cast out..."

Amen!



RE:murrcolr wrote
" I hope your not saying that we must accept the fact that we can never be changed. As I see that you say it will always be with him and will at times control him.. That is not the gospel message.."

Amen! I agree with you. You miss understood the point that I was trying to make by comparing the two different mind sets that the horse thief could aproach his temptation with.

 2012/5/29 22:07Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 why do men sin ??

why do men sin ??

 2012/5/29 22:26Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Ummmm, a question please:
Are there people here that agree that Jesus possessed a sinful nature?
The reason I'm asking is because I was more than a bit astonished by reading: "RE: Both Did Jesus Christ have a sinful nature ?? ".
I don't agree with this idea at all. It's utterly preposterous to think that Jesus had a sinful nature. Neither did Jesus have what is known as "original sin".

 2012/5/29 22:51Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: by Blayne

Re: Blayne wrote
"RE: Did Jesus Christ have a sinful nature ?? ".
I don't agree with this idea at all. It's utterly preposterous to think that Jesus had a sinful nature. Neither did Jesus have what is known as "original sin".

Amen, I agree it is a preposterous Idea.

I believe Jesus was born perfectly innocent.
I was not trying to make a statement that Jesus had a sinful nature, that would be silly of me since my entire point is that no one is born with a sinful nature.

The phrase sinful nature is not found in the scriptures!



 2012/5/29 23:12Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1262


 Re:

The scriptures say that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Jesus said man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not need to be born again only the fallen human race. Unless people are regenerated they can’t be in the kingdom of God. Jesus says that mankind is evil. Why do you think he says we are evil? Jesus has never been nor ever will be evil. Jesus says unless we all repent then we will perish.

 2012/5/29 23:47Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: rbanks

RE:rbanks wrote
" The scriptures say that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Amen, I agree!

RE: rbanks wrote
"Jesus said man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not need to be born again only the fallen human race."

all grown men and women have sinned and need to be born again. I agree or are you meaning infants also??

 2012/5/29 23:56Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Augustine

What did St Augustine believe happened to infants that died and had not been Baptized??

 2012/5/30 0:07Profile





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