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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do men sin because they are sinners or are they sinners because they sin ???

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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

quote: I believe that every man that comes into the world, or is young is lighted with the Light - yes - scripture tells us this.

Which scriptures?


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/6/9 11:35Profile









 Re:

That was the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world John 1:9

 2012/6/9 11:54
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

I thought this might be of some interest!


Romans 5:12-13 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


5:12. The section of verses 12-21 is an analogy of contrast between the disobedience of Adam resulting in universal death and the obedience of Christ Jesus making eternal life possible for all human beings. The main point of the passage is to show that just as the death of all rests on Adam, so the righteousness of all rests on Jesus Christ. "Death" in verse 12 refers specifically to physical death, as seen in verses 6-8, 10, 14, and 17. Spiritual death includes eternal damnation in hell. Jesus did not die spiritually, nor do infants (see commentary on verse 13).

The phrase pantes hēmarton ("all have sinned") is in the aorist tense, showing that a completed act was committed. In some way all sinned. Adam's fall introduced the virus of sin into the entire human race; every human being is born with the sinful nature. There are three basic theological positions.

Calvinism says that "all have sinned" means that every human being, including infants, is individually guilty of Adam's sin and that all men are "totally depraved," meaning that the human will cannot choose anything but evil. It is unscriptural: (1) some die who are not guilty of Adam's sin (verse 14); (2) God commands each human to choose; (3) infants who die would be irrevocably damned in hell.

Pelagianism teaches that Adam's sin affects others only as a bad example, and that each person starts life as free from effects of sin as Adam was prior to the Fall. (1) If this were true, man can "save" himself, and Jesus did not need to die for all (verse 18); (2) Ephesians 2:3 says we "were by nature the children of wrath."

Arminianism says that when Adam sinned, the race sinned. No human baby has been born with the original righteousness Adam had prior to the Fall but is born with a nature bent toward sin that results in actual sin when he reaches the age of accountability; each can and must then volitionally choose between God and Satan.

5:13. "The law" referred to here is the Mosaic law, as verse 14 shows. There was law prior to Moses, else there could have been no sin (4:15). Cain was guilty of sin (Genesis 4:7-11). Abel was righteous by faith (Hebrews 11:4) which motivated his obedience.

We can say with certitude that "when there is no law" describes the condition of infants and children prior to the age of accountability. Jesus made clear that children are in the Kingdom (Matthew 18:3; 19:14). Paul said, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" (7:9). This is true of every person who lives to the age of accountability. David knew he was born with a sinful nature (Psalm 51:5); he also knew that his infant son who died was with God (2 Samuel 12:23).

Complete Biblical Library Commentary - The Complete Biblical Library – Romans-Corinthians.

 2012/6/9 12:03Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

"Rom.5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

Brenda, I feel sorry for the impact others' sin had upon your children. This is always tragic...

Have you ever considered the children of the OT kings? You can have a good king who had an evil son. And then there would be an evil king who had a good son. So, how does one explain it based on the reasons you shared?

Does the entire Scriptures not demonstrate that ALL have sinned? That there was no one perfect born after Adam and Eve except for Jesus? Did Adam and Eve sin because God's parenting was faulty? Or, how about everyone else - does scripture teach us that people have to be taught to sin? Sin comes natural - it just is there. All I can read in the entire Bible is that people have to be taught, encourage to pursue holiness! Holiness does not come natural but is easier when one is filled with the Holy Spirit. Yet, in that there will be temptations one will have to deal with. And why is this so? Think about that. James talks about this issue...

Brenda, one can blame bad people's influence for the behavior of our prodigals and there would still be no resolution to this problem. The reality is that they chose this lifestyle and it is a whole lot more convenient to blame others then take full responsibility for it. Bad influences will resonate within a heart bent to rebellion, otherwise it would not impact ones life.

God bless.

EDITED for clarity.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/11 8:41Profile





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