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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : We are called to FLEE Persecution, not to be harmed within it.

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Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 632
Monroe, LA - USA



The only real solid facts that I can give are those found in God's Word:

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Deu 28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.

Deu 28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.

Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

These from Deuteronomy and many others were promises made to Israel ... consequences for forsaking God. If God would bring such things upon His own chosen people, how much more would He do so for a gentile nation that has forsaken Him.

With 40 million+ innocent babies already murdered at the hands of this nation, we are ripe for such wrath and more. Of course there have been several prophecies by David Wilkerson and others.

We actually do have a gay bar in Monroe, but as far as threats against Christians by local government, we don't feel such a threat here.

I'll try to summarize the things that I have heard:

A friend whose brother is in the national guard told me that in February they started extensive training on riot control.

Another friend whose family members are in the Department of Homeland Security quoted me a large amount of ammunition that has recently been ordered ... I don't remember the figure ... but it was enough to put 2 bullets in every person in America ... She said that many countries that have traditionally used the U$D are planning to start using gold and silver and rejecting the U$D. The purpose is to bring down the value of the U$D. When our currency is worthless, rioting will follow. With that and a few more staged "national emergencies", the president will have ample "reason" to declare martial law. Because of the fact that many American soldiers and officers may not go along with the plan, troops from nations that hate us may be called in to subdue and subject our society to a new form of government. According to her, the "dominoes are supposed to start falling" in June of this year, and the president's total control is planned to be in effect by November.

How much of that is accurate? I have no idea. Any "news" from any human source whether media, internet, etc ... is all hearsay. The only solid source of facts is God's Word. We know that there is a reaping time for the years of sowing bad seeds as a nation. As to how it is carried out and when ... only God knows.

Perhaps Trekker can share some "facts" that could shed light on the issue.

Am I worried? Absolutely not. This is my Father's world. What He allows to happen with my life is best, even if it is a painful martyr's death in this country. To Him be all the glory. I do however feel that Christians should have their passports ready just in case God allows some of us to escape such events.

Imagine Germany before Hitler ... Russia before communism ... Never are such invasive plans announced. They just suddenly happen. Windows of escape are rare in such cases, but they do happen. If we are naive enough to think that our constitutional form of government is indestructible, and that it couldn't be destroyed and replaced in our lifetimes, we are foolish.

Michael Strickland

 2012/5/22 1:20Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534

 Revelation 13:7-10

Revelation 13:7-10 NASB

7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

I understand from this scripture that your fate in the face of persecution has been predestined....

Sandra Miller

 2012/5/22 7:46Profile

 Re: Revelation 13:7-10

Let us realize the reason we will be persecuted is for Jesus Christ and him alone. Jesus warned of this. We should not be surprised when it does happen. Though I imagine some pretribbers will rethink their theology if not fall away.

We need to study the history if the martyrs and realize that the blood of the martyr is the seed of the church.


 2012/5/22 10:47

 Re: Revelation 13:7-10

"If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.".................

"I understand from this scripture that your fate in the face of persecution has been predestined"....Ginnyrose

Amen GR......Very profound and sobering isn't it, and the day comes that reality overcomes our whimsical and romantic ideas about suffering, deprivation and sorrow. The wolf will one day be at the door, and stare us down. Our triumph will then be rested in the Patience of endurance then.

Jesus faced it, in Gethsemane, with sweat as blood as He interceded to allow this cup to pass....but it did not pass. He entered into faithful suffering, with patience disguised in the throws of agony intensified.

The Spirit filled Redeemed of the Earth, We the saved, must also enter this crucible. We will be the hunted ones, as He was. But just as the Roman's tortured Him, and as they touched Him, so "they", the spirit of the hateful world, will touch us.

The flip side to this is that He will glorify Himself through us; in love displayed, in power and healing and truth and light! Stephen was a model death, ordained by the Lord, to reflect the Grace on the faithful martyr that glorified Jesus. His face shone like an angel, as he cried out "Father forgive them"!

He had witnessed, or surely heard of His Master crying the same. Much, much grace will be given to the witnesses in this coming hour. The Reformation also flowed with blood, and fire too, and there is much testimony of the great joy given to those in the flame in cruel agonizing torture, with flesh boiling and melting, offering sweet praise to Jesus, and witnessing love to the henchman.

"He has never forsaken ANY who seek after Him!" Never will.

Also, "God Provides"; His Character revealed to Abraham, the father of faith, at Isaac's sacrifice. We will be provided for. We must seek Him. I think Manna will return to the Earth for some....and water out of the Rock, and armies destroyed by faith. Brothertom

 2012/5/22 12:53

Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA


QUOTE: "Perhaps Trekker can share some "facts" that could shed light on the issue."==LORDDOITAGAIN

Is this to be taken as sarcasm? If so, it is unnecessary. I hope you did not think that MY comment on page one was sarcastic (??) I was merely honestly stating that basically i think any Christian who is thinking of being able to flee the country from persecution is running out of time (and should look at doing it now or real soon) because airport "security" is becoming tougher (and more ridiculous, if media reports are correct) every day. Once the door of opportunity is closed it is closed. So i just meant that if you are hoping to go to Gautemala's Christian community why wait (much longer)? By your description Gautemala does sound very nice. My comment was not meant to be sarcastic and it was not meant to be taken as any kind of "prophecy" so please don't misunderstand; it was only my opinion based on the way things are going in this country and world. Things are moving headlong in one direction. My apologies if my earlier comment was written in a way that caused you to feel offended. It was not meant to be.

 2012/5/22 17:48Profile

Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 632
Monroe, LA - USA


Dear Trekker,

Absolutely no sarcasm intended, and no indeed, I didn't take your post as sarcasm. I'm sorry if my post came across in that fashion. The reason that I put "facts" in quotation marks is was to reemphasize what I was stating about the fact that all that we hear from the media or on the internet is the same as what I heard from my friends. Unless I actually hear something from the president's mouth, or from the mouth of an official, I am only repeating hearsay ... even when it appears to be well documented.

The things that I wrote about sound quite bizarre and hard to believe. You also wrote something about a police state. I didn't know if you had any information on the subject that you could share. Those words went right along with the things that I had heard. At first I was even a little reluctant to share what I had heard because I realize that all that I share is tracked and word searches are done on sites. I don't want to be targeted for exposing plans.

Michael Strickland

 2012/5/22 23:44Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534


I just read something a little bit ago that tests my patience to the max! I have concluded there must be a lot of people who have been educated beyond their intelligence! Here is the link:

It goes without saying that when one is not allowed to raise animals on their farms - animals that have been grown by farmers for hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years - without gov approval some folks are plain stupid! Ok, I said it...these city patience took a hike.

AND if this type of mindset becomes the norm, it will mean one will be limited in how you can even produce your own food!

Yesterday a customer asked us if we are being regulated by any gov agency? I said "no", suggesting we are so small we likely are flying under their radar. But he said we are. Then I recalled we do have inspectors from the USDA come inspect the accuracy of our scales - not much, wonder if it will change? and how?


If what happened in MI becomes wide spread, Lord have mercy! Does this mean we will be forced to feed from gov approved troughs? imagination has been activated - it seems worse then I knew or thought. If this becomes more widespread the famine that is sure to follow will be man induced by ridiculous bureaucrats.

Bible say anything about famine in the last days?

Sandra Miller

 2012/5/23 22:19Profile

 The Mark and ADM.

"Bible say anything about famine in the last days?"

"AND if this type of mindset becomes the norm, it will mean one will be limited in how you can even produce your own food!"...GinnyRose....

Here's a couple GR, about the Last Days;

"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles."...Jesus

[ She says in her heart ]...I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’

Therefore her plagues will come in one day; death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her."

The destruction of the heritage seed line may be the death-knoll of all the Earth. These "Scientific" mutations produce disease and pest free crops, with unusual and guaranteed volume. They, however, are incapable of reproducing themselves; they are sterile.

This was done to guarantee re buy, and to control the market. I wonder, also, if something more sinister is afoot Say; In the long run, what if someone could make you take a mark to live?

 2012/5/24 8:47

 Re: The Mark and ADM.

I wanted to add, that our trust must not, nor will not be in our ability to provide for ourselves. I think it has to be on the line of the Egyptian flight of Moses and company. Eventually, they had to trust God alone, and had to be grateful too.

The motto they learned the hard way was to be grateful to God for what they had been granted, and never to complain about what they did not have. Defying this, brought the Wrath of God upon them.

Can you be grateful for a bowl of stale beans, and water?

They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented ; of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith."

And, as the Tribulation period progresses, I think that this is where we, and our children will come to:

"Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound.

" Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

"I can do all things through Christ[ who strengthens me!"

Even die gracefully. Remember sitting at your table, and someone says, "Let's "say" grace."

This is coming to an end. We will be grateful, joyously grateful to God, when He comes through with His Provision. It is one of His Names, by the way, as He declared to Abraham.

Yahweh Yireh (The Lord My Provider)

He has never broken this promise to any who seek after Him.

 2012/5/24 9:31

Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135

 Re: "The Jewish Question" it was called in 1933 Germany. I am reading Bonhoeffer's autobiograhy and seeing a perspective on this I had not seen before, though I've heard E.Lutzer on the subject. In retrospect one wonders how it was possible. I've just entered the chapters dealing with this and am confounded that the "German Church" even supported the Aryan Paragraph that prevented a Jew from being a part of the German Church. Dietrich met this swiftly with the truth that if they are in Christ they ARE in the Church and several other points.

It's not difficult to see that the culture and the mood is swiftly ripening for persecution. The current administration has attempted the passage of laws that would cripple our ability to prevent their indoctrination of children and hinder our influence in their lives. They've tried to end Christian radio and home schooling among other things. What a change if just these two things had passed. The spiritual war is so plain to see.

Those in the south and midwest USA still see some respect from the population, but there are those in our midst that have the religion of Dawkins. I believe that we are still in a transition where people will still hear the gospel and want to know who Jesus is. Gone are the days that it is normal to "go to church" for most people, but there are still alot of fish to catch.

Randy Lambert

 2012/5/26 23:57Profile

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