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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Important enough to 'discern'

Quote:
good golly thats some website, the expose' section is incredible. I enjoy some of that material.


Hi Zeke
Yes, its pretty comprehensive. If your name isn't on his banned list it's because he hasn't heard of you, I think, Nevertheless, his comments on Bonhoeffer have some validity although I also agree with MC's comments to a degree.

Mike, why don't you kick off a topic in the Lounge section on ??? and lets talk over some of those issues. What aspects of failure to live in the 21st century should get our attention first?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/10/5 17:58Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
and lets talk over some of those issues. What aspects of failure to live in the 21st century should get our attention first?




That's funny...I was thinking you would ask me that!

I think it sounds like a good idea...let me sort through my own fretting to see if there are some worthwhile themes worth discussing. (Most things make sense untill you say them out loud...) I am headed away for a week of rest with my family. Maybe that will be the perfect time to reflect on my statement...to see the substance in it.

MC




_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/10/5 18:35Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Mike
have a good break. I look forward to your return and to hearing some of your thought provoking comments. :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/10/6 4:02Profile
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: "Acts 2" Type Community

Hello,

just a short question: What is this thread about?

The first post was interesting but what followed a lot less.

Manfred

 2005/10/6 9:04Profile
RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re:

Karl, I can't help but answer you n this one. I hope it benefits anyone who is reading.

Quote:
Simple standards for a household are: lift the toilet seat, be home by 10, let the dog out before 10, take out the garbage, it's your turn to do the dishes, etc.. These kinds of standards are welcomed, but anything connected to scripture only brings problems, problems and more problems.


I do think I understand where you are coming from however I cannot agree with the statement. I think that the majority of the standards ought to be biblical. Primary, of course, are the ones that Christ said were primary.
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matt 23:23
Having prioritized the 'weightier matters' people in small group situations who were wounded would have been less likely to be wounded. I know of a small group that was blown apart shortly before I was converted. My dad was part of the group along with a couple dear friends of mine when it happened. One of those dear friends has turned to the Catholic Church for refuge. Sad as it is, he is probably getting more refuge and care there than at the group church.
The story goes, as told by my dad, that the group was filled with people that had and still have (most of them) an exceptional zeal for God. The leader was a very studious man but was authoritative in his approach to leadership. There were many times when the pastor acted inappropriately in an authoritative way. The group held together with great strength for a long while 'til it could do so no longer.
" "And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt7:27
Must go now but I will leave you all with the exhortation to unhuman humility.
In Christ, Randy


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Randy Steinke

 2005/10/6 12:33Profile
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: Acts 2

Quote:
There were many times when the pastor acted inappropriately in an authoritative way. The group held together with great strength for a long while 'til it could do so no longer.



What you've shared here is certainly not a "Acts 2 type community", (I don't like the expression, but it's the title of this thread). There was no single "pastor" then.

Manfred

 2005/10/6 17:11Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: "Perfect" or Perfect

I have been increasingly meditating on Bonhoeffer's statement of Christian Community not being an [b]Ideal[/b] but a [b]Devine Reality[/b]. It is so tempting to look at my present situation and point fingers at the family members who "aren't doing this community thing properly" or the church members that "won't lay down there own business for a brother and sister who's hurting", without considering the lack of patience in my own heart.

The crucible of living life in intense closeness has revealed elements of selfishness that I long thought I'd dealt with. What a blessing it is to be unable to hide my true self from the group of people who band together against me at times for my spiritual edification. True edification (building up) requires a rooting out and tearing down, a destroying and throwing down, before a building and planting can occur.

It is truly a beautiful thing to be able to see one's self in the negative descriptions on 2 Tim 3:2-9, which was never before noticed. It is so tempting to keep one's self occupied with who's good to listen to and who's not, or the how much we pray, fast, give, preach, and witness...but neglecting the fact that we "have not charity (agape)". We split hairs over the purity of Bonhoeffer of Barth's doctrine in this thread, due to there use of liberal terms, and yetwe neglect the heart and intent of the men.

We even criticise Bonhoeffer for his involvement in an assasination attempt, which I agree was questionable. But before he cast the die of judgement, could we consider the frustration of a man living in a nation that was utterly mesmerised by the rantings of an occultic and murderous dictator. Don't forget that many christians were seduced into believing Hitler's claims about the Jews and Aryanism.

Also consider that he was hanged only months prior to to Berlin's fall. So, how's your patience going? Mine's not so good, to be honest. Oh, by the way, if you're not sure if you have patience, then step out from behind the keyboard, and enter into fellowship without training wheels (ie, a 'backspace' key). Allow yourself to experience the act of foot in mouth, when you think you're speaking of good things. Allow yourself the luxury of rejection over stating things in a way that seems to twist the meaning of you intention. Then see how patient you are. How hard it is to bear misunderstanding. But how liberating to be misunderstood.

Please, I'm honestly not directing this toward anyone in particular (Bro Ron and Mike I know your heart and have been incredibly blessed by your insight over the years), but attempting to pour out my heart in an attempt to pull us back on track and to respond to a question asked:

Quote:

Manfred wrote:
just a short question: What is this thread about?
[i](As far as the title, I believe it's an inferance to Acts 2:42-47, but really, the title is simply somantic, as with any thread)[/i]



We can tend to think of the issue of fellowship as being a 'minor thing' when really it is the major. "What?", I hear you ask, "More important than evangelism?" Well, what do you plan on doing with the people you see converted? Just sending them out as nomads? Yes, I know that the great commission is of paramount importance, however Jesus Himself stated that the greatest commandment is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength". But He didn't stop there, because he also said that the "second is [b]like it[/b]", before stating the second as "love your neighbour as yourself".

I've heard it said that the good samaitan parable is about reaching out to the lost, and while I believe this to be so, I think it's a little closed minded to minimise it down to that. Many christians tend to "love the lost" but "despise their brother". To me, the fact that the greatest commandment is tied together to the second greatest, by defining it a "like it", means that it is inseparatable. To love your brother [b]is[/b] to love Christ, and to love Christ [b]is[/b] to love your brother.

Please, I implore you, consider this. Weigh these words. It is easy to criticise my words, but tell me what is wrong with the heart of them. Is this issue too boring for you? Then perhaps you should consider that boredom is a signpost for the manifestation of covetousness. Boredom says, "I don't care if this is a good thing, but I want something better." I hope a haven't offend anyone with that statment, but the truth does hurt sometimes. Either way, know that I do love you guys.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/10/18 12:09Profile
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: "Acts 2" Type Community

Brother,

I just feel to say something because you quoted me. But, English not being my mother tongue, I can't make head or tail of what you said here.

You will have to expect an answer from the other folks here - my apologies.

Manfred

 2005/10/18 13:20Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Humble pie anyone?

Quote:

Manfred wrote:
Brother,

I just feel to say something because you quoted me. But, English not being my mother tongue, I can't make head or tail of what you said here.

You will have to expect an answer from the other folks here - my apologies.

Manfred



Sorry Brother,

The thread is about peoples practicle experiences in fellowshipping with other chritians on a daily basis, or at least beyond the usual Sunday and a mid week meeting. My rambling was to show a bit of my experiences in this, and to show the benefit of letting people see the parts of me that are normally easy to keep hidden, but easily seen when people are with me so much. That's all.

Sorry for all the big words, and colorful phrases.
:-)


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/10/18 13:38Profile
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: "Acts 2" Type Community

Thank you brother for your explanations.

I have been living church life in homes since 1987, so I have some experience of this. But I do not want to be associated with what is called the "House-Church Movement", which has become a fashionable movement like any other.

In fact I know many such assemblies as ours over here in Europe, and no one really knows them because they don't advertise, they have no names, they're not registered as anything, etc... And they all are detached from the above-quoted movement.

We are brothers and sisters meeting together in a simple fashion, desiring to give Christ his rightful place - which is the central one.

We don't pretend being anything, and we certainly don't feel special nor superior to anyone else. We live what we live because we think that it is the Lord's way for us.

Manfred

 2005/10/18 15:25Profile





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