| Politics and Sermon Index|
Brothers and sisters... political discussions have always been discouraged on this forum, and for good reason. Lately I've allowed myself to be pulled into them as well.
There are newer people here who are making some rather brash statements about other Christians on this forum, and there are others who are being drawn into it.
We need to stop and submit to the wishes of Greg and the other mods, which is to keep the division out of here. And nothing divides like politics. It's the very nature of politics.
There is no doubt Mormonism will be a hot topic this year, and that will come up... but we need to discuss the religion and keep the politics out of it.
I urge you all, brothers and sisters to stick to the intent and purpose of this forum...
| 2012/5/11 13:09|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: Politics and Sermon Index|
Brothers and Sister,
This is something that we want to make clear for all the saint here on the forums. These forums are "not" a place to discuss politics in depth or cater conversations here of elections in the United States. We feel that is distracting from the message, goal and intent of these forums. Please keep our discussions towards the kingdom of God, Scriptures and the bible truths in these sermons.
Of course some major headlines might be brought out once or twice but as a rule we do not discuss these things in length on the forums here because of their divisive, and carnal nature and lacking importance towards the kingdom of God that we all belong to that is not of this earth.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2012/5/11 13:22||Profile|
| Re: Politics and Sermon Index|
...and I apologize ahead of time for getting involved in those discussions myself. As they spiralled downward I remembered why we should avoid them here.
| 2012/5/11 13:22|
| Re: |
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lords sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
| 2012/5/11 20:12|
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I submit that there is a difference between "politcs" discussion vs Discussion of how governements are to exist and be supported by christians.
"Politics" is like "my party is better than your party or my denomination is better than yours" or I am of Paul, I am of apollos, I am of Cephas, I am of Christ..is Christ divided?
Proper Government function by the Law of Nature and of Natures God is right out of the scriptures from old and New Testaments. God establishes Nations and Governments of those Nations including Israels current form of Government.
So to me it seems that The high caliber of saints that post of SI should be able to discuss Godly Government principles without getting into my party is better than your party arguements.
Also there are those on SI who do not agree about the role of christians in Government or America being a christian nation etc.
So that makes it hard.
On the obama gay marriage thread I detected that the convo might start to get "Political" vs sincere learning and sharpening of our role in our country so I declared that this would be my last post on that thread.
So again I will try to stay within the guideline but I also am not perfect so there will be slips.
| 2012/5/11 21:49|
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I agree! maybe SI is not the place for political discussions and I can appreciate that, but just remember because "most" Christians that don't want to get involved or discuss their political views, is why this whole country is going south faster than a speeding bullet. Jesus fought for God's will for his life here, and some hated him, some will hate us, but the devil wants to keep us all silenced, and so for he is doing an excellent job, old sluefoot must be happier than a pig in a mud hole.
| 2012/5/11 23:51||Profile|
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There is definately a balance to be had in all of these discussions and I think that Greg has been pretty liberal ( not a political statement:) when it comes to some of these posts because there is in America this blending of Christianity and politics. Obviously gay marriage as it pertains to the state of the country, the state of western civilisation and the possibiltiy of it being another sign of the Lord impending return is very relevant.
The question of Christians being caught up in politics, or entangled in these issues is not a political question at all. It actually is a vital question and obviously there are Christians for involvment and there are Christians against involvment. We should be able to discuss it and we should be able to agree to disagree. If I believe that it is ultimatly sinful to be entangled in the affairs of this world and another thinks that it is sinful not to be involved in the affairs of this world, we should be able to discuss that as 1, mature adults and 2, mature Christians. What tends to happen is that people get angry with each other because pride says " what me, engaged in some kind of sinful activity ( or lack of activity) no, never!!"
One last thing, it cannot be avoided that potentially the next President of America will be a Mormon. There are huge ramifications and a thousand questions asked by Christians and non Christians alike. So, lets avoid the politics, I agree, and stick to the relevant questions that will be asked by the world and by many Christians who may have little understanding of what Mormonism actually is. There is great potential for learning here..........bro Frank
| 2012/5/12 0:20|
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Well outright blatant attacks on anyone here, like I witnessed today, is out of line period, and only grieves our spirits to even have to read this stuff.
Obama, in his third flip-flop over homosexual marriages, is now claiming that he condoning homosexual marriages based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is the type of thinking that should scare all Christians into getting involved someway/somehow, the days of the timid Christians can no longer be, if we are to gain our morals back in America.
| 2012/5/12 0:33||Profile|
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The majority of Americans (60% to 76%) identify themselves as Christians, mostly within Protestant and Catholic denominations, accounting for 51% and 25% of the population respectively.76% can't stop the other 24% from the ruins? America, we have a problem.
| 2012/5/12 0:40||Profile|
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I agree that there is a delicate line between "church" and "state" issues.
This week, there was an issue about what is "right" and "wrong" because our current president made a statement of endorsement regarding the concept of homosexual "marriage." This is "political" in both a "policy" (cause and effect) and in the definition of the word "politics" (where as the Greek word "polis" means "city" or "community"). At the same time, this is a spiritual issue too. It is a matter of righteous v. unrighteousness -- or immorality (as the Word of God describes it).
When legislation is passed by a man who is "elected" by the consent of the "polis," it can have direct impact upon believers. While some have painted the concept of homosexual "marriage" as a matter of equality (it isn't), policy can be extended to the point that it would become "unlawful" for believers to call the lifestyle "immoral." There has already been legislation in which elected politicians or their appointed judges declared the Biblical teaching about homosexuality to be "hate speech." Thus, a believer who continues to teach it (or hand out literature about it) would ultimately become embroiled into the very government legal process that he may have wanted to avoid in the first place.
This is why the issues of "politics" have a tendency to take upon both a secular "political" influence and a spiritual impact simultaneously.
There are many current issues -- like homosexuality, abortion, freedom of worship, publicly funded or protected pornography as "art," etc... -- that have an impact on both the Church and the State.
When I was a teenager, I was sent home from school because I was wearing a Christian t-shirt with an image of Jesus on the cross (from the Jesus Film Project) with the words, "Who do you say that I am?" written on it. An overzealous teacher contacted an overzealous administrator and they told me to go home and change my shirt.
My dad was a Naval officer. He was at home for lunch...and took me back to the school and refused to comply. He waited in the office with me and demanded that the Superintendent of the school district drive to the school in order to meet with him. My dad pointed out that a few kids in the hall were wearing demonic shirts (including an Ozzie Ozborn shirt with demons all over it). Needless to say, I didn't have to change my shirt. This was BEFORE my dad gave his heart to Christ. Yet, a spiritual issue had become a state issue...but was more of a matter of "right" and "wrong" in my dad's mind.
Now, there are many different types of people here on SermonIndex. We come from different backgrounds, beliefs and levels of maturity. There is an old saying in the world about the dangers of conflict that come from discussing "politics and religion." Well, SermonIndex is a testament to the fact that issues of doctrine can often be discussed without meandering into bitter disagreements. There are individuals with whom I disagree about certain issues. However, the danger is when we point them out as "sinful" because of those non-essential views.
For instance, my wife doesn't wear a head covering. She doesn't point out those who do and call it "sinful." Neither should anyone point her out and call her "sinful." It is possible that BOTH are following the Lord with a clear conscience in the matter without necessarily arriving to same exact opinion on the matter. The PRINCIPLE of Biblical modesty and propriety is what matters to both the sister who does and does not feel that it is something that they most practice. Neither should accuse the other of "sin" for following the Lord with a clear conscience. Nor should they be accused of "pride" for disagreeing with someone else's assertion if they maintain a meek disposition about a matter.
Over the next few months, people will likely feel strongly about certain issues. They may feel strongly about the Mormonism cult of which Mitt Romney embraces. They may feel strongly about the Liberation Theology cult that Barack Obama embraces. And, of course, some might find that it is incompatible for a believer to decide that a man who practices Mormonism, Catholicism, Liberation Theology or even some other sectarian religious persuasion as the better choice for a four year job as president. These are acceptable things to suggest. However, we shouldn't be angry (or question the "intellect") when someone doesn't agree. Nor should we introduce myths and rumors into a discussion either (like the "White Horse Prophesy" or that Obama was from Kenya or a Muslim) without identifying it as such.
By the end of November, many of these discussions will probably die down. A president will be elected (or reelected). While this is an important thing in terms of policies and laws in the temporary country that we dwell, I often think that we sensationalize the outcome. Someone used to tell me, "Don't worry, it will all come out in the wash." All of our worrying, concern and debates will not change what is already viewed from Eternity. While I may still choose to share my voice over issues or the positions of candidates (even at the polls), my faith is only in the Living God. He knows the End from the Beginning. I think that we all can rest in the knowledge that God's eye is on the sparrow...and that we are worth more than sparrows.
If I have offended anyone by my words, I do apologize. It was never an intention to suggest that someone should violate their conscience in any such matter. Rather, I would urge believers in all issues like these to go to the Lord in prayer and study of His Word. While we can hear the voices who tell us one thing or another, our direction should only come from God.
So, I do agree that we should be careful to not introduce matters that will distract the Bride of Christ from the Groom. I remember how my wife sometimes felt overwhelmed during our engagement. On top of work and the completion of graduate school, there was a wedding to plan. I would sometimes take her to the side and simply remind her that our focus shouldn't be on the wedding, but on the life for which God has brought us together. She was always grateful for the reminder. I think that the same can be said with our relationship with the Lord. He is what matters most -- and our daily time alone in His presence serves to help us forget the things that matter less in terms of Eternity.
May our hearts be focused on the God of Eternity. With His love in mind, I love each of you.
| 2012/5/12 1:21||Profile|