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Joined: 2012/2/27
Posts: 93

 Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

I've laid off writing this for some time, trying again and again to put the right words in place... And I've never found it.

Praise God I found this site, and the members of the forum seem largely very sound, one mind, and quite biblical.

God 'refreshed' me some time ago, I experienced a period of weeping for days - this has now transformed my prayer life, my worship and much more... I read quite a lot and came to a natural conclusion that I have become quite 'calvinist' if I were to apply such a label.

As such, I attend a church, formerly Charismatic, now moving toward Pentecostal - we have a new pastor who comes from an AOG background. It's great we have new leadership, but looking at the plans (we're going to be getting Ken Gott speaking for instance - something about that makes me nervous), I'm worried that we're just looking for the signs and wonders, and not fixing ourselves on Christ to let Him do the work.

It's been a dark week for me - our service last Sunday I was stone-cold bored, as we sung three songs in an hour-long worship service, with long periods of 'free-worship', which normally involved singing in tongues. All I wanted to do was sing songs of praise to our saviour.

What do I do? Trying to talk to people has led to arguments (with both my wife, and my friends), close Christian brothers and sisters seem distant now, and yet my concern for the lost, even for those in our fellowship increases. I am at the point I have to tread on eggshells when discussing theological issues with my wife, and I know that's not healthy to start with.

I'm frustrated that it's all about 'Joy, peace and happiness' (not that I have a problem with those) and not about getting right before a Holy God. I saw a man preaching in the street in our town today, that moved me more than last Sunday's sermon. We have a prayer meeting tonight, and I feel a nausea about it - like they're going to do something that will involve a 'fire tunnel' or we'll end up chanting or laughing or something else - none of which seem biblical to me in my regenerated state.

Really, what do I do? The more I seek God, read His word, the more conflicted I become... I feel an intense pressure about what I see as false teaching, and an absolute uncertainty about how to deal with it. I just want to cry out and say 'Enough!', or to weep for the state of the Church...

I would really appreciate prayers and sound biblical wisdom in what to do. If this hasn't made sense, ask and I'll try to explain it better. I just needed to get the ball rolling. If I've posted in the wrong area, I apologise and will move the thread elsewhere.

 2012/5/9 13:10Profile

 Re: Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

I dont have time right now to write too much, but I can give you some things to be cautious about... if I may.

Be very careful of chasing after signs and wonders. I think you already know that after reading what you wrote here. The Bible talks a lot about signs and wonders at the end of the age, and those who would chase after them and also heap teachers unto themselves that would tickle their ears. Nothing wrong with teachers! But we must be careful and discerning.

The other thing is do not depend on your feelings as your guide. We all experience times in the desert… and man, when I’m in the desert it’s very easy for me to think God has abandoned me and I should just give up. But God never abandons. Just because you may not be “experiencing” the same feelings during worship as you have at other times doesn’t mean something is wrong with your church. Although it might mean that!

Basically you need to submerge yourself in the Word of God and in prayer. If possible, take a day or 2 and go stay overnight somewhere away from everyone and pray and read and seek God. I have a friend who owns a lodge here in the mountains. Every once in a while I call him and he and wife get a room ready for me… and I go be alone for a day and a night… and seek the Lord.

You need to do something like that.

I cant tell you what you need to do beyond that. I don’t know you or your church or the situation. I will say that even though Pentecostals and Charismatics are our brothers (unless they are off on some doctrinal tangent… like Oneness Pentecostals), if you have definite leanings toward Reformed theology you may grow uncomfortable with some teachings they will have that are contrary to it.

So there ya go… don’t know if that helps, but I tried.


PS: Oneness Pentecostals teach against the orthodox teachings of the Trinity, and also some other weird things. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. They are considered to be a cult. Famous OP's are TD Jakes and the music group Phillips, Craig & Dean.

 2012/5/9 13:22

 Re: Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

HI Rich, I am formely from Scotland so I know something of the Charismatic movement in Britian and the Pentecostal movement. It is in dire shape and everything you wrote in your post brother is right on. Fire tunnels and laughing, oh brother I say flee from these things. I am a , brother, baptized in the Holy Spirit, tongue speaking and unashamed of the gifts. I love feelings and I love your weeping and your closeness, never be afraid of these things, just always be led by the Word of God and the Spirit of God. Do not lean towwards a theology, lean towards God and let Him lead and guide you. When the Spirit shows you false teaching then let HIm show you these things, He did promise us that He would lead and guide us into all truths. As far as your wife is concerned, you are going to have to be led of the Spirit in these matters. Speak the truh in love at all times.

I also know how difficult it can be to find fellowship in Britain, and Europe. The choice always seems to be dead religion or people who run after signs and wonders and who are " charismaniacs," for lack of a better phrase, I really do not like that word for it seems very degorative and I still love these people, they are just so lost, sheep without shephards. Yous just stay close to Jesus Rich, press in closer to Him. I do not promise you an easy time, in fact I know you face difficulties but the Lord will be with you. I will be praying for you Rich, God bless you in your journey. Trust in Jesus and lean not on your own understanding and He will direct your paths bro..............bro Frank

 2012/5/9 13:33

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1530
Scotland, UK


Richrock where in the UK do you live?

Colin Murray

 2012/5/9 13:40Profile

Joined: 2011/7/12
Posts: 83

 Re: Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

Dear friend,
I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading you to recognize a spiritual deception. I have had repeated experiences in which I have encountered supposed "manifestations". After I sought counsel from the Lord, it was shown to me what I was seeing was a counterfeit of the truth. Religious experiences from God draw people to a deeper appreciation of Biblical truth, repentance from sin, a comitted walk of holiness and true fellowship with God. When people seek sensational experiences instead of a closer walk with a holy God, they open themselves up to decieving spirits.
Regarding the response of your wife, I would recommend intense intercessional prayer for her in private for a period of time if bringing up the subject creates strife. Too often we try to do God's work in the flesh without waiting for the cue from Him. Be prepared for a battle in the spiritual realm. Will pray,

P.S. By the way, I am neither "reformed" or Pentecostal. I like to read the Bible without the "opinions"

 2012/5/9 13:42Profile

Joined: 2012/2/27
Posts: 93


@murrcolr I'm based in South Wales, UK. Bit far from you up there in Scotland!

@appolus - Praise God you know something of the situation. It comforts me greatly to know that I am not alone in this.

I thank you everyone, for the replies thus far. I have attended this fellowship for all of my Christian life (17 years), you could say I knew no different. Saying that, Christianity was a little different then :-)

No, I'm not a chaser after signs - but I've never stopped anyone from doing so until recently. Once I mentioned that these were foolish I got such violence in the response... not good.

I used the label 'Reformed' loosely - it's merely a more accurate label to describe the things God has revealed in me. I would agree, I do not want to lean on any one theology, but to lean on the sound doctrine that is revealed through the word, through prayer and seeking God alone.

I just continue to dive into His word, praying for God to reveal and expose things around me, but inside I feel the battle is so hard. My only outlet thus far are these posts I've written about it. This has been in me for some months now, and is not going away.

Thanks beekpr for your advice - I pray for her daily in this, and have learned hard lessons from trying to sort this out too much too quickly :-( .

Finally - I'm not advocating any particular movement or theology, nor am I going to name names/specific places. I don't want to falsely accuse, slander or knock someone down specifically. I just want peace in my heart about what to do.

 2012/5/9 14:04Profile

Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re: Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

Hello Rich,

Your post is a startling realization that I think many in the body of Christ are coming to see, some have for many years. I won't say I have awesome advice as I'm a new Christian, born again of His Holy Spirit 16 December, 2010! Praise God! He has been leading me into a whole lot in the past year and a half (almost). One of the things are these things you spoke of that are not biblical and we know who is behind it.

It's been a dark week for me

As others have mentioned, He is always with us. He is so Faithful! I have been through many days of darkness, sometimes I feel I may wither away because I feel the life of His Spirit, so it seems, far away but He always restores me. He will always do the same for you too! To be honest, I spend a lot of time alone with the Lord when I can. When I go to a building, where believers meet I usually feel so gaurded! I don't like that but I'm very aware of the time I live in and must also protect my family from anything the enemy might try to sale me.

God will bless you brother! And I'm so happy to hear the kind and thoughtful responses posted above. It truely brought a tear to my eye to see love and concern.


Bryan Reed

 2012/5/9 16:05Profile

Joined: 2008/2/15
Posts: 205
New York


Good response Krispy.

I'll be praying for you richrock. There is a famine in the lands brother; a famine of the Word of God. Man cannot live by emotionalism alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

 2012/5/9 16:10Profile

Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL


My goodness, it is my view that charismatics and pentecostals are brothers of each other. 3 songs in one hour is what I would call a mantra. Did they constantly sing a stanza over and over again? It causes the mind to go numb. Speaking in tongues such as you describe would cause me to leave simply because it sounds so spiritual but is it really? I believe this type of practice has been prostituted. You will not find the practice of tongues, hardly, outside of the penetecostal/charismatic church. Why is that? Is it because they have the 'power'? NO, it is my opinion that they work it up as a circus and expect others to follow their lead and be 'spiritual'.

Somehow you need to speak to your family tenderly about yoru concerns. When you get a sharp reaction of arguments over it this tells you something is very wrong! I had this happen to me when confronting a friend over people like Kenneth Copeland. If I couldn't say anything nice at all then don't say anything- I need to speak positive things is what she told me. Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning. It is a very deceptive thing to get caught up in the pentecostal atmosphere, in my opinion..


 2012/5/9 16:21Profile

Joined: 2008/2/15
Posts: 205
New York


"Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning."

Well said DEADn.

 2012/5/9 16:26Profile

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